Last December I wrote a post about the Brit Writers’ Awards and a furious bun-fight ensued, so it is with some trepidation that I write about the BWA again.
A couple of weeks ago I heard of an email sent out by the BWA, which contained this interesting snippet:
During the last year, a number of partner agents have asked us to help them identify potential literary gems to save them ploughing through their slush pile. Therefore we have been asked to find potential ‘sign-ups’ for agents in the following genres:
- Novels: commercial and literary fiction
- Books for Children
- Short stories and Poetry for anthologies
Claire King has provided the whole text of that email in her blog post here.
The deadline for submissions was Tuesday of last week, which meant that writers had only a few days to get their work into shape and send it out. That seemed pointlessly rushed to me: not only does publishing usually move at a glacial speed, all of the decent agents I know are still ploughing through their Frankfurt followups. Where are these “partner agents” going to find the time to look at any “potential literary gems” which The BWA identifies? An agent’s first priority has to be their exisiting clients, not the contents of their slush pile; and that Frankfurt backlog is likely to translate to some serious deals if it’s dealt with promptly.
And who are these “partner agents” anyway? The BWA hasn’t named them, and if I’m going to send my work anywhere I want to know who is going to consider it. Are these “partner agents” agents I’d want to work with? Might they already have seen my work, do they work with publishers who are appropriate for my writing, and are they any good at what they do? Are they even competent? Have they made any good sales? Might they even be frivolous and fraudulent? So long as the BWA doesn’t name them I have no way of knowing.
That short list of genres is troubling too. “Commercial and literary fiction” and “books for children” are both very broad descriptions and in order to cover all that ground the BWA’s “partner agents” would have to be both many in number and eclectic in their tastes and agenting skills: most good agents cast their nets over a much more narrowly-defined area of writing so that they can be sure to know their market in appropriate detail. And the suggestion that agents would be interested in short stories and poetry by unknown writers is bizarre. When I asked literary agent extraordinaire Carole Blake if she’d be interested in representing such works she responded with a very clear no. I don’t know any good agents who would be interested in or able to sell such works, or who would want to collect a whole load of short works from various unknown writers in order to put together anthologies they’d then need to find publishers for: anthologies aren’t compiled like that, and anthologies are such notoriously poor sellers that even if an agent were to embark on such a project they’d be very unlikely to be able to find a publisher willing to invest in it.
The BWA email was signed off by “Hari Kumar, Brit Writers Agents Division” which makes me wonder if the BWA is shortly going to start offering literary representation as well as literary prizes: I sincerely hope they’re not, because they have neither the experience nor the knowledge to represent writers well; but we’ll have to wait and see about that.
What we don’t have to wait for is the response that submissions to the scheme will receive: and suddenly, all becomes clear. Some of the members of Harry Bingham’s Word Cloud sent their work in and have now heard back from the BWA, and this is part of the message they’ve all received:
from what you have submitted, the assessors could not refer your work to agents immediately, but they see great potential here. The issues highlighted above can be rectified easily, so before you go any further with this, we suggest that you need a consultancy to advice on your synopsis, positioning the book for an agent/publisher, highlighting USPs and ensuring that the main plots are woven into the synopsis which also needs some basic formatting. We believe this will encourage the agent/publisher to read on to see its true potential.
You need to find an experienced literary consultant/marketing expert that can help you with this. There are many providers out there and it shouldn’t cost very much but it’s important to find the right person that knows what agents/publishers are looking for. Please do not have it edited at this stage, as this is not required. If you would like us to arrange this for you, please let me know immediately.
My bold.
My first thought was that I wouldn’t let anyone who wrote such mangled prose loose anywhere near my work; my second was to wonder if they really meant to say this;
Please do not have it edited at this stage, as this is not required. If you would like us to arrange this for you, please let me know immediately.
So editing isn’t required at this stage, but the BWA can arrange it if you like. Ha! I think what they really meant to say was, “please let us know if you’d like us to put you in touch with an experienced literary consultant/marketing expert that [sic] can help you with this”.
The BWA appears to be suggesting that the writers concerned should concentrate on the marketing and presentation of their work, but not bother improving the writing at this stage; and that the BWA is able to put writers in touch with appropriate people who can help with those things.
This is wrong on a couple of levels.
I wonder if writers who take the BWA up on this invitation will be asked to pay for those services? Because we all know Yog’s Law, right?
Agents, editors and publishers are on the lookout for good writing with strong commercial potential when they search their slush-piles, not slick marketing packages which discuss a book’s USPs. Very few books require the advice of a marketing expert at the submission stage and to suggest otherwise reveals a rather odd understanding of publishing as I know it, and hints at exploitation.
In an effort to be less cynical I’d love to hear from writers who submitted to this scheme and who actually ended up with a referral to a literary agent. Who is the agent the BWA sent your work to? And how did that referral go? I’d also like to hear from any writers who asked the BWA to find them “an experienced literary consultant/marketing expert” to help them with their book: who did the BWA refer you to? What was the cost, and would the BWA get any sort of kickback from that fee?
Coming up in future episodes: the BWA publishing awards, and the BWA Publishing Programme. If I squeeze enough time out of my days those posts might even appear this week.
This is indeed worrying. I do hope that anyone who has the answers to the valid questions you have raised here will respond. As always, I know your sole motivation is to protect vulnerable writers.
Thanks, Debi.
I did email the BWA about this but haven’t heard back from them; I’d have liked to have been able to include their views in my piece. If they’re out there and reading this, I hope they’ll respond to my questions either here or via my contact form: I’m sure it would clarify a lot of things if they did.
Also, if anyone else has any knowledge of the marketing consultants BWA intends to refer writers to, you’re also welcome to comment on this thread or to contact me via my contact form. I’ll protect your privacy if you feel it’s necessary.
A very clear and thorough post. If any writer I come across is tempted by this ‘offer’, I will make it my business to direct them here.
I shall be interested to hear what feedback you get from BWA and any writers who have been referred to an agent and the identity thereof.
Goodness, I think I’ll keep my head under the duvet on this one. One could get suspicious about who was making the money here, if one allowed one’s thoughts to stray in that direction.
Jane, the thing is, you know the questions to ask because you know how publishing works when it works well and when it works badly. And the best thing about posts such as this is that they encourage writers to ask the right questions. Well done, as ever.
How many of the writers got this response, do you know? And did anyone get a different response?
I don’t know how many writers got this email but all of the ones I’ve seen so far got pretty much the same text but with shorter pieces inserted which were sort-of relevant to their books, in order to personalise the responses. Whether they really were personalised–in that they gave good advice about the books–I don’t know.
What I do know is that there’s a lot of good advice online for writers in need of help with their synopses, and it’s all free. You’ve got a lot of good stuff on your blog, Nicola: could you please post some links? Then there are some excellent writers’ message boards which can help: there’s The Word Cloud, which I linked to in my original post, which is free to use; WriteWords, which charges a smallish annual fee; and AbsoluteWrite, which is more American in tone but does have a Share Your Work section. I’d recommend them all. Writers can join up at any of those places and get good, free advice on their synopses, their query letters, and anything else they feel the need to work on. There are literary conventions which have workshops, talks and meetings with agents: these charge a fee but are excellent; the one at York was fun when I went there last March, there’s Swanwick and Edinburgh and Winchester, and I’m sure there are more. As these all offer advice from industry professionals rather than from marketing types I wouldn’t mind betting that these will all offer you better advice and better value for money than the marketing consultants that the BWA could put you in touch with, but until we know who those consultants are we can’t be sure.
What I do know, though, is that marketing advice is almost certainly premature for a writer who is still working on getting the synopsis right. I’ve worked in both marketing and editorial, and I know what’s required.
Ah–and another thing. If you write non-fiction then you’ll need to write a proposal for your book, rather than a synopsis: Susan Page’s book How To Get Published And Make Lots Of Money contains an excellent guide to writing a proposal, and I’ve heard from several writers who have followed it to the letter and ended up with a deal.
Dear Jane
Happy to oblige. Yes, I provide lots of free advice, based on the fact that I’ve had around 90 books published and have also been closely in touch with and able to advise authors of all genres through my work with the Society of Authors, and through the correspondence I have with agents and publishers. Along with many other authors, and you, I spend countless hours giving free advice that’s available to all, and while I deny no one their right to earn a living (which I also try to do) I think authors make their money work best when they go for the good free advice first, so that they know what to ask for when they come to pay for the more detailed work.
My blog address is attached to this comment and the links to my recent posts on synopses, which you ask for, are:
http://helpineedapublisher.blogspot.com/2011/10/your-synopsis-made-short-sweet-and.html
http://helpineedapublisher.blogspot.com/2010/08/synopsis-for-non-linear-story.html
http://helpineedapublisher.blogspot.com/2010/03/synopsis-spotlight.html
Please miss, I want a proper agent.
Thank you, Nicola. That’s really helpful.
Meanwhile, I’ve been getting reports that people who have responded to the BWA’s suggestion that they need marketing advice have been told that it will cost them various amounts, in the low hundreds. I don’t want to be too specific as I’ve promised not to reveal anyone’s identity here; and some of the reports I’ve received have been second-hand; but I really don’t think anyone should pay for this sort of advice in relation to a submission, and the fees I’ve been hearing about are much too high.
As Nicola wrote, I have no problems with anyone trying to earn an honest living: we all have to do that. But I do have problems with telling writers that they need something that they really don’t, and then charging them an exorbitant amount for it. That’s just not right.
I know this isn’t necessarily the right place to leave this comment, but I figure a lot of people reading it might be in the same boat as me.
After the submissions deadline for the BWAwards this year I was offered the chance of feedback and paid this for my work, in the sum of £50. In the summer I queried when I would hear something and was told after the Awards had taken place. I queried again when the Awards happened and was told I’d hear in October. Today being November 1st I am now concerned.
Has anybody either received feedback, or been told the same as me? I’d be grateful to hear!
Helen, it’s perfectly fine for you to leave your comment here.
I hadn’t realised that entrants to the main awards were being offered fee-based feedback. £50 is a lot of money; especially for nothing, which is what you seem to have received.
I spotted a comment left on BWA’s Facebook wall under a post they published about an author whose contract had allegedly been cancelled as a result of comments made on the internet. This comment has now been deleted, but I copied it when I saw it as I thought that might happen. I would have thought that it would be better for a full response to be given to answer the valid questions raised.
This is the comment that was deleted:
Nahla-yes I agree. This sounds like a rumour to me and it depends what you mean by disparage. No one should be unprofessional but people should know some context which is that there’s a fair amount of Internet debate about BWA itself. As a former winner I’ve stayed out of this til now but I think posts like this raise quite legitimate questions http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?p=4412#comment-31385 I would love to see BWA give clear and professional answers – I still believe they do a lot of good encouraging writers but my own experience is that they don’t always deliver what is promised or show themselves to be open to debate. Writers support writers- and free discussion.
This is the FB link https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000665760125#!/pages/Brit-Writers-Awards/104296700741 In any case, the comment has been deleted.
I just want to reiterate the final line of that deleted comment: Writers support writers – and free discussion.
Harry Bingham of the Word Cloud and Writers’ Workshops has now written about the BWA.
Jane – so delighted you’re taking on this whole, very messy business. I’ve heard a good deal from various quarters, and
On advice-to-writers, like Nicola I blog about things to do with writing. The Resources page is here:
http://emmadarwin.typepad.com/thisitchofwriting/resources.html
and it includes posts on things like Synopses, Showing and Telling, Planning (or not planning), Writing Courses, and perhaps relevantly in the context of this blog of yours:
How to get the best out of an editorial report… which includes deciding which editorial service to use in the first place.
Thanks for all the information here.
I am personally arranging a meeting with them on Friday and will report back!
You can check out my experience so far here
http://thefantasynovelist.wordpress.com/
and I look forward to everyone’s comments.
Thanks again,
Rick
I’m sorry but haven’t the time now to wade through all your blog but what exactly will this meeting be about? All you reported about the phone conversation was that there’d had been a mix-up over names.
I would love you to report back here. But I must say I was surprised that someone who is so much in favour of literacy and the correct use of language that you end your blog entry with, “Here, here.” I always thought it was Hear, hear.
The original comment that BWA posted was:
“Just had a conversation with a publisher who has cancelled a contract with an author because he saw her comments on a writer’s blog disparaging other writers and organisations. His reason… “If she can say that about others, she’ll say that about me one day.” Do you think he was right to drop her?”
I’ve had a look in my own publishing contract and I don’t see any clause that would allow this to happen. Is it normal, Jane?
@ Debi:
Rick James wrote,:
Rick, thanks for commenting but I’m not quite sure what you meant by your blog post. It’s a bit confusing. Why are you making an appointment with the BWA? Good luck with the meeting, anyway.
Claire King wrote,:
Claire, some contracts do have an anti-disparagement clause in them but I’ve only ever seen it in relation to the author not disparaging the publisher with which he has a contract, not about a writer “disparaging other writers and organisations”. That seems bizarre to me and wholly out of the scope and responsibility of any contract.
If I were of a suspicious nature I’d think that someone might be telling porky-pies. And why would anyone do that? Might they want to put the wind up someone who was considering going public with something they didn’t want exposed?
It’s lucky that I’m not overly suspicious, isn’t it?
I’ve just seen this posted on The Word Cloud:
Harry’s previous blog post, which I linked to above, has been deleted.
If the BWA dislikes anything that’s been written here I hope they’ll join in the conversation and address the concerns which people have. It’s far less expensive than sending the lawyers in; and it scores big points on the PR front, too.
*astonished*
@ Jane Smith:
[...] More BWA fun from Jane, including the startling news that the BWA has threatened an online writing group with [...]
Claire King has asked the BWA to clarify a few points and its response is somewhat disconcerting–but brief. Read it here.
People with nothing to hide are usually more than happy to answer questions. Threats of legal action are all too often enough to stop others making legitimate (critical) comments. Stopping the communication flow is never a good idea. I have therefore blogged and suggested people read you. Thanks for the alert…will now go back to the hunt.
All of this – along with the appalling fraud committed on Claire King on another comment thread here – makes me quite glad I never tried to involve myself with Brit Writers. I’m waiting to see if they descend to the level of The Write Agenda and start banging on about book-burning, but that might just be my personal level of cynicism. Surely they can’t believe they’ll win friends through these kinds of tactics?
Hello,
I too paid the £50 for feedback, although I did receive an email stating that the majority have been sent out and the remainder will be sent by 11th November – so good luck!
I work in online marketing myself, and where we have had clients get bad reviews (often reviews made by competitors, in many cases) – we always encourage them to reply with a reasonable and apologetic response (usually promising a full refund and complimentary xyz if they send their receipt does the trick – especially when you consider the claim to be not entirely honest)(Not that I’m suggesting that’s the case here – but responding to negative feedback is all part of marketing and any conversation with your customers is to be valued (especially in this age of social media)).
Anyhow, thought I’d just add that bit about the 11th and agree that going and getting the lawyers is a bit like saying you’ll go and tell the teacher when you’re having a playground disagreement… (and losing).
Happy writing folks!
Mothwing, thanks for the update about the 11th of November–that’s helpful. Did you pay your £50 direct to the BWA or to a consultant they put you in touch with? And was this in relation to the BWA’s recent “Agent Division” email, or did you respond to a previous offer they put out?
If anyone who has paid for these critiques would be prepared to share them with us here I’d be grateful: it would certainly help establish how useful the BWA’s service(s) has been to the writers who have paid for it.
And I sincerely hope that the BWA will find the time to join in with the discussion here: it would be so helpful for all of us.
Hello again,
Yes I paid £50 direct to BritWriters… there was an email not too long after the deadline offering the service, which when I googled similar services seemed like a reasonable deal.
My impression was that the people who would read your submission would just record their notes/observations – hence they would be received shortly after the awards were announced, however the fact that it is now 6 weeks after that date I wonder who is reviewing it, and indeed if it has actually been ‘viewed’ at all (I’m a natural born cynic, but I would have thought that to have those reviewing it for the competition (as they said that these were a mix of agents and other professionals) as the very same who would complete your feedback would be the logical and efficient option… any other seems a little silly (if its already been read by one set of suitable professionals, why then send it to another set to give feedback) or disappointing (it had been put on a reject pile on day one, and now they have had to dig it out, read around the coffee stains and guesstimate the contents of mouse-chewed pages). Or maybe I just think too much.
I also responded to the email about submission to agents, although have had no reply… will keep you posted!
Cheers,
MothWing
[...] murmur of concern at some of the BWA’s business practices (for example here, here and here). As an organisation active with new writers, we need to know how to respond to those concerns. At [...]
[...] and you haven’t read all the stuff about the Brit Writers’ Awards yet, take a look here, here and here. You need to know this. Tweet This [...]
@ Jane Smith:
This sort of thing makes me sick. Rather than stand up to scrutiny with a proper defense, they stoop to threats, thereby eliminating any information that would warn innocent writers of this company’s questionable practices.
Justice? I think not.
@ MothWing:
I’m in the same situation. Sent off first 3 chapters and synopsis of my work-in-progress, which has now found a home. Seemed a reasonable deal at the time for £50. Since then I’ve had informal feedback from agents (free of charge) plus a literary consultant review (very useful). I’ve had feedback from other competitions, which tend to offer either tick-sheet (around £5) or written review (£20). So I’m expecting 1-2 pages of focussed critique for my £50!
If not, and if it’s a retrospective tick-sheet or generic attempt, then it’s a small claims action to get the money back and I suggest others do likewise.
Incidentally other big prizes often announce the shortlist after announcing the winners. Bridport did this for at least one writer pal (well done to her for making the list). I’m not bothered about the £10.95 entry fee as you always take a chance entering a competition, but I am worried it is a lure for a whole range of consultancy services which may not be up to scratch.
Hey Folks,
Just received my feedback – and it matches the description of the service they sold me so I’m happy. (Not so happy about the criticisms however – need to toughen up a bit and not take it personally as I know they have a valid point).
But yes, they seem to have delivered – only a little later than originally expected. I would still be keen to hear the answers to the other questions raised here and over at http://www.writersworkshop.co.uk/blog/bwa-brit-writers-awards/ to help decide if I enter again next year.
Thanks to all for sharing thoughts and providing a place where I could express my slight concerns and provide (hopefully helpful) info.
Cheers,
MothWing
I got my report back and it didn’t match my entry! Query inbound to BWA. The headings appear appropriate and it looks to be linked in to their internal rating system, so it looks reasonable enough. As data controllers they are bound by the Data Protection Act and liable to a Subject Access Request.
Oh dear, that’s not good! Hope it gets sorted soon, how frustrating!
Got it through. I’m happy with the feedback, which is constructive when critical and positive overall. It is in line with, or complements, what others have said.
I think we are all aware that information, once it has been uploaded to the internet, is available for ever. This means that any ‘google’ search for the names of the writers on the Brit Writers Publishing Programme, will produce a full list of the 15 people who embarked on the scheme. For this reason alone (and I hope you don’t mind Jane) I just want to say that I chose to leave the Programme, at the beginning of August and I received a full refund. Although I cannot remove my name from the list of those on the Programme, perhaps by posting to the Blogs where this scheme is being discussed, this comment might appear on any future ‘google’ searches. I did sign a confidentiality agreement, when I joined the scheme and I need to take legal advice as to whether I am still bound by it, so although I would love to join in this discussion, I currently feel unable to do so, for fear of legal action.
I have posted this comment on other Blogs, Jane, but I would just like to add something else to this one. When I joined the Programme, I was upset with what was perceived in certain areas, as negative Blogging and I made a comment, to that effect, on your Blog. I didn’t think it was fair for people to be so ‘anti’ the scheme, without giving it a fair chance. I did promise that I would post an update, in December 2011, on completion of the Programme. Sali Gray.
I have read this several times and just can’t see what the problem is, you can ask these questions of any organisation, and as far as I can see you have not uncovered any real ‘wrongdoing’ so one has to ask, what is your motive for such a long and unfocused blog?
I sent something to The Writers Workshop once and I got back a report that was so general that it was useless, so please don’t quote them as font of all integrity
@P Gharai
You’re absolutely right. You can ask these questions of any organisation. In fact the only organisation, at the moment, that doesn’t seem to think you’re allowed to ask, or even discuss the matter, is the BWA.
Most organisations, when asked, don’t send out solicitor’s letters telling the correspondents to cease and desist, suggesting the mere fact of asking the questions constitutes libel. The fact of the BWA doing that does not reflect well on them, and whether they mean to or not, it suggests they don’t like being asked these questions. In which case one has to ask ‘why?’ This is what Jane, and others, including myself, are doing.
I’d been looking at the britwriter’s competition in 2010 but decided not to go for it.
All I can suggest is that any authors in Britain who get this type of approach and are concerned is to try the Society of Authors. Their contract review service is open even if you aren’t published yet and just have an offer.
@P Gharai:
You posted the following:
“I sent something to The Writers Workshop once and I got back a report that was so general that it was useless, so please don’t quote them as font of all integrity.”
Did you write to them and tell them this and why exactly it was useless? What was their reply? Perhaps it told you something you didn’t want to know or maybe you didn’t understand it. How can they correct any faults if you don’t get in touch and find out?
The only problem WW has with the BWA is that they never reply to legitimate questions. That’s all.
Whatever anyone’s opinion on the WW, that organisation always listens and talks to writers and helps them work to achieve their goals. I happen to rate it very highly. Just saying…
@ Jane Smith:
Dear Jane, I work with publishers and agents all the time and many advise my writers. i think you might be out of date on how publishing works and what agent and publishers want. Several London agents with hugely successful lists admit that if the synopsis and first five pages does not grab them, they they move on to the next manuscript. I really don’t see what your problem is with the BWA, they don’t appear to be taking any money and you are just speculating that they might try and act as agents, from a tiny bit of an email. This is what I call bad journalism.
@ Jane Smith:
But isn’t that exactly what The Writers’ Workshop does – charge people in the hundreds (not always low) to edit or assess their work? I think you are sending mixed messages here and making your site look less credible.
P Gharai wrote,:
I agree that this is how agents and editors work; except that I think you’re being generous when you suggest that they’ll read as much as five pages!
But this isn’t what’s under discussion here. How can hiring a marketing expert (which is what the BWA has suggested writers do) help with the quality of those first five pages, or help with writing a good synopsis? I can see how marketing expertise could be helpful with writing a book proposal: but book proposals are not the same thing as a synopsis.
The BWA does charge for its services: it is currently running a Publishing Programme at a cost of £1795 per participant; people in this thread have reported paying £50 for feedback on their work; and I believe that others who responded to the BWA’s suggestion that it could refer them to marketing experts have reported that fees were involved. I don’t have a problem with the BWA, but I am interested in what sort of value for money these paid-for services represent to writers.
The email from the BWA which triggered this blog post was signed off, “Hari Kumar, Brit Writers Agents Division”. I would like to know what this “Agents Division” is going to do. Why is asking this question “bad journalism”?
P Gharai wrote,:
You do seem to be unhappy with the Writers’ Workshop: perhaps your concerns would be better addressed if you spoke to them, and not to me. However, this does allow me to make a useful point.
The Writers’ Workshop makes its services very clear: it tells you upfront who writes the critiques it provides, and how they’re qualified to do the work; it tells you upfront what its charges are; it provides sample reports so you know what sort of information you’ll get if you pay for a report.
If you sign up for a course with the Writers’ Workshop you’ll know in advance of sending in your cheque who is going to be teaching on that course, and what the course will cover. The same goes for courses with the excellent Arvon Foundation, with writing MAs, with courses by Curtis Brown Creative and The Faber Academy, and almost every other writers’ course that I know about. But the BWA doesn’t seem to offer this same level of information. I think it would be helpful if it would.
Latest news on BWA:
1. Referrals to Agents:
“We had an incredible response to this pilot initiative and we are still going through the initial assessments, so please bear with us. Only a few have been referred, but most are being returned with feedback and recommendations on how to improve the submission. As part of our feedback, if you have been recommended to have your work edited or appraised, then please visit our wonderful editing partners – http://www.theoxfordeditors.co.uk quoting ref: XXXXX.”
These are the Oxford Editors: http://www.theoxfordeditors.co.uk/?page_id=2
I think the copy-editing fee is very steep, compared to a quote I had elsewhere.
2. They are promoting area co-ordinators. It has an income incentive.
“You will earn between 10% – 50% of all income generated through your Brit Writers activities in
your area:
10% of any entries to Brit Writers’ Awards from your area website, 20% of all referrals to writing services (you retain 90% of all services you provide yourself if you are a qualified and experienced provider),
50% of all Schools signed up and 75% for local businesses advertising on your website).”
I dislike this idea, because of the income incentive, which reminds me of American-type selling schemes. I also think it could potentially conflict with the excellent work of charitable organisations like the Scottish Book Trust, plus grassroots efforts, especially if it has legal stuff.
http://www.britwriters.com/what_would_an_area_coordinator_do.pdf
I posted above in a rush and have just seen the bit which requires “£500 of school sponsorship” which will go through the books of BWA.
Red alarm bells and loud siren. Do not touch. DO NOT TOUCH! It looks to me like an American selling scheme with literature as the product. Shame on BWA for this approach, which detracts from an attractive and exciting competition.
Black Dog, I’ve not looked into the school sponsorship side of the BWA so can’t make an informed comment on this; nor do I know much about the BWA’s work with schools. The PDF you linked to above implies to me that the BWA is running a type of franchise operation in order to increase the number of schools which might benefit from its scheme, and on the face of it I can’t see anything wrong with that. I think it’s usual for people interested in running a franchise to pay a fee to the company concerned–although I’ll admit here and now that I don’t know much about franchises, so I might have got this bit horribly wrong!
Having said that, though, I’ve only seen positive things written about the BWA’s schools programme. And from where I’m standing, if the BWA’s schools scheme (I don’t know it’s name) is getting children enthusiastic about reading and writing, it’s doing a good job.
My youngest son is profoundly dyslexic: he has struggled with schooling all his life, and continues to do so despite our spending a lot of time, anxiety and money doing our best to help him. I know of other families who don’t have the resources to provide this same level of support, and the schools don’t have the budgets to do it all themselves: if the BWA is helping schools get children excited by books then I’m all for it.
Jane, I don’t quite know enough about the schools programme either … they quote the figure of 500,000 children and schools membership at £10 each. BWA may be doing good work alongside the other literacy initiatives (Scottish Book Trust in my neck of the woods) but no-one should be paying out money in this way (£500 each for co-ordinator or £1700 for the publishing programme) to get involved, even with the promise of a potential publishing contract or future income. Plus the non-disclosure agreements mentioned in the context of the publishing programme. It is all to easy for a writer to sign up to an onerous contract (with no reversion of rights clause, for example) and a non-disclosure agreement is even worse.
I’m involved in a long-running writing group and other activities local to me, and this sort of model seems completely inappropriate. I’m not “against” the BWA … the competition appears exiting and I was happy with the review of my entry … but this seems wrong.
@ Sally Zigmond:
No, that was the joke – it was tied into the Evelyn Waugh reference. “Here, here” outpolls “Hear, hear” in common usage because, ironically, it is misheard. Ok. Anyway, I too have little time to wade through all of this either.
Good luck to all of you.
Black Dog Tales wrote,:
Black Dog, Having read this analysis, I think I might have to revise my opinion of the BWA’s schools program. You might have been right to be so concerned.
@ Jane Smith:
Wow! Memento Mori at the Watercooler didn’t waste any time!
@ Black Dog Tales:
Just to make our position at The Oxford Editors very clear, we do not receive any incentives from Brit Writers, we are not part of any incentive scheme. Should they refer anyone to us we would simply provide our normal discount on services at our fees to the writer. We offer discounts to people who come from Brit Writers, just as we do when we receive work from members of writing groups, clubs and courses.
We are not involved in any other scheme. We also quote for copy-editing on a one to one basis and any rates on our website are clearly marked as a guide to those needing most work, such as our clients who do not speak English as their first language. But if you have any concerns do email or phone us.
All the best, the people at TOE
The Oxford Editors wrote,:
Thank you for commenting here, TOE. It’s helpful of you to clarify your relationship with Brit Writers, even if that clarification does take the form of a plug for your services.
I’m very glad you commented here, actually, as it’s raised a few issues which I’d like you to clarify.
Someone signing themselves off as P Gharai left three unpleasant comments on this blog earlier. The first one appeared on November 10th, the day that I believe your association with the BWA began. I’ll quote them here so you don’t have to go looking for them:
P Gharai wrote,:
P Gharai wrote,:
P Gharai wrote,:
Note those attempts to discredit The Writers [sic] Workshop, which like The Oxford Editors provides editing services to aspiring writers. I’ve bolded those bits to help you spot them.
I was saddened to realise that P Gharai’s comments come from the same IP address as the comment you left. By you, I mean The Oxford Editors. And here I see that a Ms P. Mosteshar-Gharai is a director of The Oxford Editors.
So, my questions:
1) Is the person calling themselves P Gharai who commented here the same person as Ms P. Mosteshar-Gharai, who is a director of The Oxford Writers?
2) If they are one and the same, don’t you think it’s a bit below the belt to use my blog to try to discredit your competitors in this way?
3) If they are the same person, did P Gharai really employ the services of The Writers’ Workshop or was it all just pretend?
4) And finally, if they are not the same person, what on earth is this P Gharai doing using your computers?
I look forward to your response.
[...] storm of criticism and contention between BWA and a handful of writers. Why had Harry Bingham, Jane Smith and Claire King all allegedly received letters from BWA’s solicitors, asking them to take down [...]
I’ve now moved all discussion about P Gharai and The Oxford Editors to my new post, IP Addresses Confusion. If you want to continue the conversation, this is the place to talk about Brit Writers; the other post is where you could talk about how IP addresses work. Thank you.
There was an article about the Brit Writers Awards in yesterday’s Times. I can’t link to it because it’s behind a paywall; but I did buy the paper and I found the article very interesting and informative.
I’d welcome discussion of it here, if anyone has read it. There has already been a brief but not terribly illuminating chat about it on another of my posts, IP Addresses Confusion, which I think begins here (I hope I’ve done that right).
With regard to the article in yesterday’s Times…
I’d like to assure anyone who reads the article, ‘threatening’ is not my style, no matter what it says. I’ve already posted this on Debi Alper’s blog and Max Dunbar’s because they’d read and commented on the article.
This is what the article does not tell you…
The BWA promised to pay my prize money into my bank account and it didn’t happen. The first deadline passed, another was made, and another. All came and went. By this time it was the beginning of September.
The BWA then decided to arrange a ‘publicity’ event to take place in Blackwell’s bookshop in Oxford where I would be presented with a dummy cheque. My response was that I wasn’t happy about receiving a ‘dummy cheque’ for publicity reasons when the ‘real’ cheque had not been paid into my account. I also asked them for guidance on what I should say in response to one of the questions I’d been sent for a newspaper and radio interview… ‘What have you done with the prize money?’ It was that question a lot.
I have all the email communications with the BWA and I only ever asked polite questions or voiced my concerns.
The handover of the dummy cheque was scheduled for the 14th September. A few days before the event my prize money was finally paid into my account. Two days before the event an email was sent out to ‘members’ on the BWA mailing list to say my book launch was to take place at the bookshop in Oxford and everyone was welcome, they could even bring a friend. I also received the invitation. This was the first time I’d heard any mention of a ‘book launch’.
Someone wrote, in one of the blogs, about the event. He was present and, like others, wanted to buy a book. Unfortunately, the BWA had failed to arrange for any books to be there, other than the five they had on the shelf. I felt very sorry for the people who’d travelled a long way to be at the event. I’m not even sure the press were present. I can only remember BWA staff taking pictures.
On the bright side I can say my BWA ‘book launch’ was a sell out!
I hope the forthcoming book launches the BWA arrange for their ‘soon to be published’ authors turn out better than mine did.
Martha replied and I replied again. The full conversation can found http://marthawilliams.org/2011/11/17/whats-the-story-with-bwa/
Thank you
Thank you, Catherine, for your contribution. As I’ve said elsewhere, although the article said that you ‘threatened to miss a book signing and go public’, I don’t think the use of the word ‘threaten’ in this context reflects badly on you at all.
Apart from the shocking revelations of how shoddily Catherine has been treat by BWA (and see Martha Williams blog for posts from Catherine about the schools programme too), the most revealing part of the article, for me, was this:
Imran Akram, chief executive of the BWA, says that his company is becoming ever more popular with writers and is under attack from a few parties who may feel threatened by its populist approach. He adds that he takes responsibility for management mistakes in the company’s infancy, but says: “To our recent critics, I would say: ‘I am not answerable to you in any way.’
“When we do discover more literary gems that become global bestsellers, this will not only be a total vindication for Brit Writers but will also give me great personal pleasure and confidence to motivate me to scale ever-greater heights in the service of literature.”
The man is a megalomaniac. Me, me, me.
Plus, the phrase ‘more literary gems that become global bestsellers‘ implies that BWA have personally been responsible for some global bestsellers already. Notwithstanding Catherine’s recent success (all by her own efforts, by all accounts) I’m not aware of any global bestsellers emanating yet from the BWA stable.
In reply to Rachel’s comments…
The success of the books has been due to a joint partnership. I write, visit schools and run my website but the rest is down to the hard work from everyone at Infinite Ideas.
On the 5th August 2010, I signed an agreement with the BWA stating I was now working directly with Infinite Ideas ‘in relation to all aspects of my book’. (which has since become books)
I’m very grateful to Infinite Ideas and really enjoy working with them.
this is a PS to Rachael…
I hit sent too soon and didn’t correct the spelling of your name… sorry.
I also wanted to say thank you for your reading of the word ‘threatened’. I hadn’t interpreted it like that because I knew what I’d written and none of it was in the least threatening.
Catherine, I agree with Rachael: I didn’t think that the Times journalist’s use of the word “threatening” put you in a bad light at all.
And if you ever make a mistake in your posts here that you’d like to correct just let me know: I can edit the comments when necessary. I’m happy to make minor corrections like that, although I won’t edit posts to change their meaning or intent.
Catherine – thanks for reminding us of your very happy partnership with Infinite Ideas. I should have mentioned that in my post.
I have now read the full article. I stand by what I said. And I would like to confirm what Jane said in the comments to the later post. I am not angry. I am not out to attack anyone. I am a very straightforward person who is weary of those who cloud their words in order to defend the indefensible.
Rachael: I, too, noted the quote by Mr Imran Akram. It was pretty revealing, wasn’t it? I support writers who work hard and I am grieved when they are mislead by glossy emptiness. When I see these global best-sellers, that would not have seen the light of day without the help and wisdom of BWA, riding high, I shall be the first to rejoice.
Alas, I fear I am in for a long wait.
Given some of the information available in various blogs, I actually thought it was quite restrained and fair to all parties. There was a lot more that could’ve been said. BWA had the right to reply and I think people reading it who haven’t been close to the story will look at Imran’s quotes and draw their own conclusions. I think the best thing I can say is that they are ‘special’.
I do think Catherine’s quiet dignity shines through in all the comments she has made and I hope she continues to go from strength to strength. I know she didn’t like the use of the word but I don’t believe the word’ threaten’ can have any kind of negative association given the circumstances she outlined.
Previous experience in other industries leaves me deeply sceptical about BWA. I wish to be proved wrong but I’m not holding my breath.
I am a former member of the BWA’s Publishing Programme. Also, I worked for a short time as a Publishing Consultant for them. Having waited ten months to receive payment for work done in January 2012, I am now struggling to get a refund. Regarding the Publishing Programme I long gave up and found my own deal. Promises upon promises have been made but not substantiated. I will be taking the BWA to court, as will, a whole bunch of others. Strongly recommend that everyone avoids any dealings with the BWA. In my eyes they have proven themselves incompetent and although not intentionally a scam, may as well be regarded as such. I wish I had never heard of them. Imran Akram is a man of many an empty word.
Robert, I’m sorry to hear that things have not gone well for you, but I’m not surprised by this.
I hope you’ve read similar reports on the Writers’ Workshop blog:
http://www.writersworkshop.co.uk/blog/beware-writers-all/
http://www.writersworkshop.co.uk/blog/more-on-brit-writers/
Both blog posts make very uncomfortable reading, regardless of whether or not you’re connected with BW.