Earlier this year I began to see questions about the Brit Writers’ Award competitions cropping up on writers’ message boards. Writers were being notified left, right and centre that they had made it through to the various shortlists; very few writers who entered ended up being told that their work hadn’t made it that far; and communications with BWA seemed less than satisfactory. Several writers had submitted more than one piece of work but were never informed which piece had reached the shortlists; people were offered free tickets to the prizegiving, but just days before the event they had heard nothing more; and when they did get to the event it was chaotic and didn’t seem to deliver all that had been promised:
Well that was a let down folks …
Then the doors opened and we started to go in then a young woman who looked in charge, sort of, said oh only VIPS in first standards wait here. ( we were standard tickets)
After they had gone in we ‘standards’ were taken up to the balcony area and then were, well, just left. We didn’t have any particular seats so we sat at the front. Down below were all the tables where the VIPs the £60 ticket holders were having their dinner and also there was the stage …
There were no book signings or chance to mingle with anyone like promised on the ticket it said’opportunity to mingle with authors, agents,publishers.’ So that was a big let down.
The winner of the £10,000 prize was Catherine Cooper for her young adult book, The Golden Acorn, which she had previously self-published. I found this paragraph on the BWA site very disconcerting:
The overall Brit Writers’ Awards winner – former Shropshire teacher Catherine Cooper for her children’s novel The Golden Acorn: The Adventures of Jack Brenin – was not only crowned Unpublished Writer of the Year 2010 and awarded with an impressive £10,000 prize, but she got an amazing surprise too. Unbeknown to anyone except a tiny handful of people, we had arranged for Catherine’s novel to be published in time for the evening, ready to be distributed in UK shops this week!
Judging from comments I’ve read elsewhere Ms Cooper appeared to have no idea that her book was going to be published. So either the BWA published it without her knowledge or permission; or Ms Cooper was well aware of what was going on and the person who wrote that piece is either very ill-informed or is deliberately misleading us. I find both those alternatives worrying, in all sorts of ways; but there’s more. Judging by this odd piece from The Bookseller, it seems that the book was brought to the market in just a month: such a rushed schedule is likely to have serious implications for the quality of the final product (and yes, I find some of the comments in that article quite ridiculous*); the publisher, Infinite Ideas, appears to be more of a packager than a publisher; and although the people who work for Infinite Ideas do have a reasonable amount of publishing know-how between them this is the first young adult book they’ve published; although it’s possible that they have previously published young adult books through their self-publishing service, Infinite Authors. And I’d love to know exactly what the distribution deal was for Ms Cooper’s book because as is hinted at on the Infinite Authors website, being available from bookshops if you place a special order is not the same as being available on bookshop shelves, and that difference has a huge impact on the number of copies a book will sell.
But back to the BWA. To give praise where it’s due, the BWA did round up an impressive list of endorsements for its competitions from people like Gordon Brown, Nick Clegg, and David Cameron but those endorsements can’t compensate for the apparent lack of publishing expertise involved in the project. According to the BWA website,
The Brit Writers’ Awards was launched in 2009 by Imran Akram, the founder of the now internationally acclaimed Muslim Writers’ Awards (MWA).
While I don’t doubt Mr Akram’s good intentions, I can find no evidence that he has any experience in publishing or editing apart from that which he’s gained in working with these two award schemes (if anyone knows otherwise do please let me know so I can give Mr Akram the credit he’s due). Despite this apparent lack of experience, the BWA is now offering a paid-for mentoring scheme: just last week the BWA emailed a whole stack of writers inviting them to apply for their Publishing Programme:
We are looking to work with 15 unpublished authors over the next 12 months on an intensive one-to-one basis, who we guarantee will be published with a top publisher before Christmas 2011 …[All this] for a one off fee of £1,795. This is fully guaranteed and fully refundable if you are not published within 12 months.
It is impossible to guarantee anyone a trade publishing deal under those circumstances; I suspect that few of those fifteen writers will even get a whisper of a decent offer within twelve months. And yet the BWA is guaranteeing a publishing deal with “a top publisher”, or they’ll refund that big fat fee.
I guess that the answer to this riddle comes in how they define a “top publisher”. And here’s a great big hint. The BWA has recently set up a self-publishing scheme called Your Book, Your Way and although the fees for that scheme are not made clear on the website I did spot this little beauty:
Book promotional video trailer are available as part of the YBYW service. Upload your book trailer on to your website, social networking sites and YouTube. We have great packages. £300, £750 and a premium trailer: £2000.
Bearing in mind that most self-published books sell fewer than 200 copies each (or 40 copies, depending which statistics you rely on), then the real cost of taking advantage of those promotional packages is £1.50, £3.75 or £10 per copy sold if the writers concerned sell 200 copies of their books; but if they only reach that lower average, then they will have paid a staggering £7.50, £18.75 or £50 (yes, £50) on that promotional trailer for every single copy sold; and that’s in addition to the fees involved in publishing their books through the BWA.
And just in case you doubt that the BWA will attract much attention with this publishing scheme consider this: the first round of BWA competitions, held this year, apparently attracted 21,000 entries which would have earned the organisers £229,950.00 at this year’s entry fee of £10.95; the top prize this year is a stonking £10,000, which is more than many writers earn in a full year; and, even more worrying, they claim that “over 400,000 children are now involved from Schools across the UK in the Brit Writers Creative Writing Programme for Schools”.
Girls and boys: this is not how publishing should work. If you want to pay for help with your writing take a course with the Arvon Foundation, which is excellent; consider working with a good editorial agency; but be very wary of paying out big fat fees to be mentored by people who have little or no apparent experience in publishing or writing, and who have a vested interest in steering you towards their vanity-publishing schemes.
.
* I love The Bookseller and turn to it often when I need well-informed and publishing-savvy information: but sometimes the stories it covers are more than a little bizarre. This quote, for example:
In the wake of the firm’s involvement in the inaugural BWA, Burton has called for a new relationship to be forged between publishers and writers.
He said: “This was its first year but BWA has already become the world’s largest literary prize and a large community has developed around the award and its vision, which tears up the book of traditional publishing.”
The first paragraph is nothing but rhetoric; the second is complete nonsense. There are several awards which pay more than £10,000 to their top prizewinner; and several awards which attract more than 21,000 entrants (for example, the Richard & Judy novel competition attracted two, three, or four times as many entries, depending on which news reports you read). I’d love to see Mr Burton explain exactly what he means by those comments and back them up with a bit of evidence.
Edited to add: Harriet Smart has pointed out on Claire King’s blog post about this that the BWA website proudly displays a letter from Gordon Brown, Prime Minister, 10 Downing Street etc., in which Mr Brown expresses his support for the BWA. The only problem is that the letter is dated 26 June 2010 when we all know that David Cameron became Prime Minister and moved into 10 Downing Street in early May 2010. Ooops. I wonder what happened there, then?
Hmm. I found out about the BWA after it had closed and was frustrated that I hadn’t entered. But I’ve seen so many writers go from excitement to questionning (what’s going on) to disbelief (but no one’s been rejected) that i’m glad I missed out on that rollercoaster. What’s particularly a shame ios using the Brits name in some way to draw a parallel with the music industry and have writers believe that the awards will have the clout of their musical counterpart. The problem with running the first staging so shoddily is that you shoot yourself in the foot for the second – which seems like not very good sense. Most writers who went anywhere near version 1 will not go near version 2.
It has many many faults – not least some positively barking early round reviewers, but I’d thoroughly recommend ABNA (Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award) to anyone looking for a big bang competition that has a community around it – aside from anything else, it’s free to enter, and if you win you don’t get the lovely surprised of having (supposing you hadn’t previously self-pulished) your first rights, er, um, allegedly pilfered
Wow, what a mess they’ve got themselves into here! And the timescales are hilarious – I love the idea of one major publisher being able to get an unpublished writer to publication by the end of next year, let alone 15. And that would be assuming that they started today – most major publishers have been living in 2012 for several months…
A very informative post, thank you.
This is fascinating and more than a little worrying. I was asked to be a judge for last year’s awards, the Short Story category, and the judging process was pretty confused. I’ve no idea how many entries there were, I only managed to read a few because it wasn’t clear how to log into the online system. I was also offered tickets to the Event but they failed to materialise until the last minute when it was too late to book a train for a reasonable amount of money.
I do believe the organisers have good intentions, but perhaps, as you so clearly put it, not enough experience in publishing to present what they are doing properly and transparently. No-one can guarantee a publishing deal, and to claim you can do so is something that should make any writer suspicious. I do hope someone from BWA responds here, I’d love to know more about it.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by BJ Muntain, Fiona Joseph, Jane Smith, Nick Cross, Sarah Callejo and others. Sarah Callejo said: RT @hprw: All I've learned about the Brit Writers’ Awards http://j.mp/fENRcR Big prize, but bigger confusion. I'm going to keep away. [...]
Tania, if you’re still in contact with anyone at the BWA do please let them know about this blog post: I’d love to hear their response. I’ve tried to be fair to the BWA while writing this: but I also have to be fair to writers who might be considering entering the next competition, or applying for a place on the BWA’s mentoring scheme, and with my hand on my heart I just cannot recommend that anyone gets involved with either of them at the moment.
As the winner of two Brit Writers’ 2010 Awards, I feel I can at least answer one question you have raised. I had no idea I’d won the awards and no idea my book was going to be published for the evening at the O2. The finalists were notified and asked to submit their complete manuscript, which I did. I’d previously self-published my book and sold over a 1000 copies in 8 months but being self-published didn’t exclude you from entering the competition. In fact, I wasn’t going to go to the O2 because my husband and I had booked a holiday in St Malo (when I knew I was a finalist I thought it only polite to go… my husband stayed in St Malo and finished the holiday… had we known I was going to win he would have returned with me.)
Anyway… I’ll pass on your comments to the Brit Writers and Infinite Ideas in case they want to comment too.
My book is now available from any bookshop. It was taken to the Frankfurt Book Fair in October and my publishers, Infinite Ideas, secured a substantial five figure deal with the leading Brazilian publishing giant ‘Editora Bertrand Brasil’. These are things I could never have done on my own as a self-published author and I am very grateful to Brit Writers and especially Infinite Ideas for making it possible. They have signed me for a four book deal too now. If you have any other questions you’d like answering I’ve supplied you with my email or there’s lots of information on my website at http://www.pengrigion.co.uk
Kind regards
Catherine
I too entered last year’s Brit Writers Award – for me as I had a sub to a writers mag there was no cost. But I believe there was an entry fee per person, which when you see the quoted numbers of entries involved (even allowing for more than one entry per person) must have raised a reasonable sum of money before any sponsorship deals? I wonder is the giving out of literary awards to become a new industry? I will not be following up an further Brit Awards ‘offers’ and I look forward to reading more info about the organisation on your great website Jane.
Catherine, thank you for providing such a full response.
I am utterly horrified that Infinite Ideas published your book without your prior knowledge or permission, and without a contract in place: had you tried to get it published elsewhere beforeheand, or to find yourself an agent, or did you go straight to self-publication? Because while I agree you couldn’t have realistically achieved that Brazilian deal as a self-published writer, it could easily have happened if you had a good agent behind you, or a publisher you chose to go with rather than having the deal foisted on you in this way.
In your position I’d have got myself an agent quick-smart and got them to deal with the publishers: you could have negotiated yourself almost anything at that point, as they had clearly infringed on your copyright and announced in public that they had done so. That’s a very dodgy way for them to behave no matter how good their intentions were.
By the way, congratulations on selling so many copies of the first edition of your book in such a short space of time: that really is excellent. You did incredibly well! I hope it made up for the missed holiday, too. Why do these things always happen at once?
I have contacted BWA and passed on the link to this post, I do hope they come and comment!
Like Dan, I heard about this when it was too late to enter and again, like him, initially felt aggrieved that I’d somehow missed out on a great opportunity. A lot of well-known and well-respected writers seemed to be involved so, on the face of it, it looked wonderful.
There was a discussion about it on Litopia some time ago. (Which was how I first heard about it.) Those writers who had entered all seemed to find themselves short-listed in one or other of the many categories and their excitement was palpable. You could sense they were waiting by the telephone for ‘that call’. But very soon some of us began to detect the smell of rotten fish as delight turned to confusion when emails to the organisers went unanswered and those from the BWA became so sporadic and meaningless to be ridiculous. Some writers didn’t even know which category they’d been short-listed in or how many others had entered. There was no openness. It all became whispers and hearsay. It was a total shambles. Quite what they gained from it all in the end is hard to see.
When oh when will enthusiastic amateurs who organise ‘major writing events’ claiming they will change the face of publishing and writing forever but have no experience nor expertise, ever learn? I hate it when new (and often naive) writers are led up the garden path in this way. (It reminds me in many ways of the YouWriteOn shambles of last year.)
Thank you, Jane, for taking up the gauntlet. If anyone can make sense of it all, it’s you.
Yes, my first thought with this soi-disant publishing deal was of the YWO self-pub shambles. “Words fail me”, one industry insider described that as, to me.
I was a judge in the novels category and attended the gala awards – and found myself on the same table as Catherine. I blogged about it here. http://debialper.blogspot.com/2010/07/true-fairy-tale.html
I gave my support to BWA in good faith and in the belief that the awards provided encouragement and motivation for unpublished writers. I am, however, struggling to see how this latest venture fits in with their stated ethos and really hope they respond here.
Hello Jane
Thank you for your reply.
I did try very hard to get an agent and a publisher but no one was interested.
The unanimous reply was… they were not taking anyone new on at the moment… and who could blame them in this present climate.
That’s when my husband and I decided to become Pengridion Books and ‘do it ourselves’!
As to the prior knowledge or permission… part of the entry into the Brit Writers outlined the proposed ‘publishing deal’.
It was part of the prize to be published so I didn’t feel as if my copyright had been infringed but thanks for your concern.
Thank you also for your comments about the book sales… I actually managed to sell over 1500 by the time I got to the O2. It was seeing and hearing Sir Terry Pratchett made up for missing part of my holiday… he was so funny and someone I really admire.
Kind regards
Catherine
I was trying not to think about YouWriteOn but yes, there are a few similarities, aren’t there?
Just in case anyone is interested, here’s a link to my blog posts about that particular episode:
http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?tag=youwriteon
Don’t read the comments to those posts unless you’re feeling tough: it all got a little heated.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Eoin Purcell and Jane Smith, Sarah Callejo. Sarah Callejo said: RT @hprw: Winner of 2010 Brit Writ Award confirms #BWA publ her book w/o her prior knowledge or permission. http://ht.ly/3l9Fj (comment 6) [...]
[...] (How Publishing Really Works) published a post on something I’d never heard of called the Brit Writers’ Awards. I get the heebie-jeebies about most awards. They seem wonderful when you win them but the whole [...]
For the purpose of infusing a little perspective into the equation, please consider Catherine Cooper’s responses, which speak for themselves. As aspiring authors swimming against the tide, should we not applaud success rather than having to constantly face negativity at every turn.
I know many of my readers who entered the BWA Awards 2010 and some of them were very pleased to have been shortlisted and attend the Gala event. I was a bit surprised when none of them came back to with negative things to say when they didn’t win, because that’s often the case and its happened before.
In the (admittedly limited) contact I’ve had with BWA team they have always been professional and appear to do things with best intentions as well as encourage more diversity in the industry. I’m glad Catherine has come on here to clarify some of the worrying things this post has highlighted. Well done on the subsequent publishing deal!! I don’t know much about their new mentoring scheme or latest proposal but I know in the past they’ve secured support from reputable names in the industry and can only hope that this is the case here.
I also entered – for free, as I also had the relevant subscription. But I struggled with the website upload facility which, initially, didn’t work, and then I managed to upload completely the wrong document. Nevertheless, I was apparently ‘short’ listed – even though my document was wrongly-formatted in contravention of the rules – and, as one of the Litopia members smelling a rat, I queried this.
The answers I received seemed fair enough on the surface, but they did not reassure me completely and I did not respond to the many emails I later received urging me to buy expensive tickets for the event.
If Catherine is happy with her prize and with the fate and likely fate of her book(s), that’s wonderful news and I congratulate her. Personally, I am aiming for mainstream publishing or bust (probably bust but hey-ho).
Generally speaking, though, I support Jane’s comments in this post. The whole BWA thing left a sour taste in my mouth, even though I did not personally lose any money (I always abdie by John C Wright’s Tenth Commandment (via Zeno Literary Agency) – http://arhyalon.livejournal.com/72302.html – that money shouild always flow towards the writer). As someone who depserately wants to be a recognised writer, I can see just how easy it is for people to be exploited in that desire.
I’m afraid that the BWA (and yes, I receioved one of those emails urging me to spend over a grand on their latest scam), in my view, reeks of exploitation and not at all of supportive recognition for aspiring writers.
E Thomas. I don’t think anyone here, least of all Jane, is being negative about Catherine Cooper’s success or the pleasure that her BWA win brought to her. The fact that everything has turned out well for her doesn’t mean that the BWA is the answer to every unpublished writer’s prayers. The point Jane was making was that, given her talent, Catherine’s success might well have been even better through the ‘usual channels.’ Catherine says ‘no one wanted to know’ before BWA’s input. This doesn’t mean that in future no-one would have taken an interest. Now we shall never know because she’s burned her boats.
One swallow does not make a summer.
Sally…
Good point! All of us at the ‘don’t want to know’ stage must believe that, at some point, someone will want to know, or else give up. No-one wants to know until they do, and it happens with persistence and hard work.
Or so I am told and do believe…!
@ Catherine Cooper:
Catherine, I’m intrigued – how did they manage to get it to print? Was the editing process skipped? Did they have some kind of contract with you as an entrant that they had the right to print?
Hi there,
As an unpublished writer I think the best thing you can do for a writer is motivating and inspiring him/her to keep at it, because I am sure most of us already know it is not going to be easy. The BWA has done exactly that and besides that they have actually been of great help to me. I have had several one-on-one sessions for which I only had to pay once a nominal fee (and believe me, it was cheap compared to the time and access I have been given) and have attended free workshops, which were very informative and fun. So I have not regretted joining the BWA for one second.
@Willemijn -
I have had professional from lots of people, including a couple of agents who took the time to send me detailed feedback; the editor of a well-respected SF&F publishing house whom I met at a convention and who gave me a brief assessment of one of my novels; several published authors who have given up their time to review my work and provide insight as to how I can improve it. From all of those people and many more, I have also received bundles of support and encouragement.
I haven’t had to pay a penny. Which is great, because I don’t have any pennies to spare.
My point is that this kind of support is out there and available without cost. I’d also add that low-cost does not equate with good advice. And that many authors do actually achieve mainstream publication without any help. They write and write and write and they learn.
I agree with Dan Holloway’s comment about the inclusion of the word ‘Brit’ in the awards. Smacks of Tony Blair’s inauguration in the late nineties when he packed Number Ten with as many of the Brit pack as could be squeezed in to bolster his hip image as recommended by Alastair Campbell .
The Bookseller article has the unpleasant odour of lazy journalism, of an article hacked straight from a press release.
‘While Burton believes some of BWA’s aims may not be realistic, including increasing royalities [sic] paid to authors […]‘, and Caroline Horn can’t be arsed to pick up on this. Why would Mr. Burton even hint at increased royalties other for the fact he knows it is what suggestible authors want to hear?
The whole event smells of fish. Cod to be precise.
Fascinating post. I was one of the thousands of writers who entered the BWA last year. I entered in three categories, and received emails telling me that I’d got through two stages of judging. Cue euphoria! Until, as has already been said, I began to realise that everyone and her dog appeared to have been ‘shortlisted’, and no-one at any stage told me which categories I’d been ‘shortlisted’ in. There appeared to be a few people whose emails were regularly answered in detail, and who posted their answers on Facebook. I wish they’d answered mine, together with the one I sent this month, asking if they could tell me what they mean, exactly, by a ‘top publisher’. I was tempted by the offer, in spite of the alarm bells blaring in my head, but am so glad that I haven’t gone for it. After all, if you were selected and published, you’d always know that you’d paid money to be ‘guaranteed’ publication. And if you didn’t, you’d feel sh*t.
@ Erastes:
In reply to Erastes…
When I was informed I was a finalist I was shown a sample contract, as were all the other potential winners. I had it checked out by The Society of Authors (of which, by then I was a member) and was told it was fine. I then signed an agreement with the BWA to say that if I won, I would be happy with this contract. My book was already ‘in print’ with Chandler’s Book Design so the editing process had already been done.
I hope this answers your question.
Like everyone who entered the BWA, I did so in good faith, I don’t feel my bridges have been burned and I’m very happy working with Infinite Ideas.
Have any of you actually read Catherine Cooper’s book The Golden Acorn? I have… it’s a brilliant read for both children and adults… a well deserved winner.
How interesting! Before I share my thoughts I have a question for the writer of this Blog – before writing this, did you arrange to meet the said Mr Akram for a discussion of your concerns and clarity of them?
After reading what feels, on reflection, like a clear attack on an initiative that doesn’t follow the norm – it is saddening to see how an opinion or view like this can bring all those who clearly didn’t get selected out of the woodworks!
Or is this a rant of someone who wishes they had thought up some of these ideas in the first instance?
Are you trying by any chance to devalue the work that BWA are in effect doing because they are not so closed with thier ideas and provide for potential opportunities that don’t fit the usual closed Publishing Model – that most writers know is unecessarily long-winded and old fashioned.
The self professed prestige some industries place on themselves still boggles the mind to say the least!
Who’s to say you have to have the experience in a field to drive the vision? This level of ignorance has always undermined and been a hindrance to the development of so many industries.
Was Richard Branson ever a train driver? I doubt it!
Catherine Cooper seems to have had a good experience from her comments above – thank goodness she posted her thoughts and experience, otherwise we have your good self to research and share your interpretation of an initiative.
I ask these questions for the simple reason that your post is less than informative in tone and moreso carries a sorry tone of envy.
As one of the larger supporting Publishers of this initiative I am shocked and saddened that you had the time to research and write this piece on your blog – a clear attack on a new and innovative initiative that seems to have some in the Publishing industry up in arms and others wanting to support it! Only time will tell.
If you don’t have all the actual information on a matter, you really should not be making up stories like the ones above to vent your personal opinion.
I shall write again when I have time to share all the ‘fantastic’ changes BWA has bought to individuals lives and will hopefully continue to do so.
Good grief, a lot of you have commmented here while I’ve been offline.
I’ll respond to you all as soon as I can, but forgive me if it takes me some time. I’ll do my best.
“it is saddening to see how an opinion or view like this can bring all those who clearly didn’t get selected out of the woodworks!”
ouch! Marcia, with respect, I’ve entered many competitions and not been selected – and I’ve never taken issue with those decisions. Rather, I’m taking issue with the fact that I DID get ‘selected’, along with almost everyone else who entered, and to this day don’t know what I was ‘selected’ for…
I am so disappointed with Marcia B’s reply. It follows the same pattern as all those individuals who don’t like what Jane says. It accuses her of envy (which is ridiculous) and refers to the ‘closed publishing model’ which is a total nonsense and one that’s always banded about an means absolutely nothing. Closed to whom? And to liken what they are doing to Richard Branson’s business empire smacks of extreme hubris. They claim to support unknown writers with their awards. Just because those who they have chosen support them is no endorsement. I wouldn’t expect any less. It’s all, to misquote Shakespeare, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. (And sadly, predictable.)
Catherine Cooper wrote:
See, that’s where I start to get worried. Good agents and publishers are always interested in good writing that fits their lists, regardless of the economic climate: I have several writers who have had their debut novels published in this last year, or whose debuts are appearing in the next few months. Sally Zigmond, who has commented in this thread, had her first novel published earlier this year; Josa Young’s debut novel was published last year; R J Frith’s debut novel was published last month; and Talli Rowland’s debut novel comes out very early in 2011. Publishers ARE signing good work when they see it.
How many submissions did you make, Catherine? Just wondering. Were you trying agents, publishers or both? It could be that you were submitting to the wrong places, or in the wrong way: and judging by the apparent ease that Inspiring Ideas have sold Brazillian rights to your book that might well be the case.
That’s good to hear: I did all sorts of internet searches about this and didn’t come across anything which suggested that publication was part of the ultimate prize; and I’d hate to watch another Cooks Source situation unfold.
Then you’ve done incredibly well: in my original blog post I talk about the average sales for most self-published books, and if you follow the links you’ll see how very well you’ve done. You should be very proud of yourself for those numbers–they’re excellent.
He’s inspirational: so prolific, and very funny. Mind you, I don’t suppose you minded missing part of your holiday given how well things have gone for you, and how happy you are with all of this. Congratulations!
I have to say I’m slightly sickened by some of this. There’s more ignorance on this blog about how publishing really works than I can deal with immediately but some of it has to be countered. My name is Richard Burton and I am the Managing Director of Infinite Ideas, the publisher of Catherine Cooper’s novel, The Golden Acorn. I’m not entirely sure what I or this business have done to be vilified in this way but if Jane Smith had bothered to contact me before posting this I could have explained how publishing really works to her.
Infinite Ideas is a conventional trade publisher. It is not a self publisher. We have 200 titles in print and our books have been translated into over 40 languages. We have worldwide distribution, including Penguin in south east Asia. We have stockholding agents in Asia, Australia and South Africa. We have licensing deals in the US with some of the world’s biggest publishers including McGraw Hill and Wiley. We are proud to be Catherine Cooper’s publisher and we are looking forward to publishing the sequel to The Golden Acorn early next year. How anyone could gather from this that we are a packaging company is beyond my understanding.
Infinite Authors is an ethical self publishing platform that we will launch next year. We are doing this because although Infinite Ideas might not want to publish a particular book that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be published. We are making our facilities and professional publishing skills available to authors who want to use them. Infinite Authors will make no claims about distribution and marketing and it will be completely transparent. It has nothing, and will have nothing to do with Infinite Ideas’ mainstream publishing.
We would never publish anything without a proper contract with the author and any suggestion that we would is actionable. The details of those transactions are nothing to do with anyone on this site but I see that Catherine has gone to the trouble of explaining the process that took place before she won the award and I am happy that she has.
As to the Bookseller article, if they have got any sense anyone who has been interviewed by journalists goes into it with his or her eyes open. The chances of accidental misinterpretation/misquotation are high. It’s part of the deal; as is being ridiculed for what you did or didn’t say afterwards.
We have done an excellent job with The Golden Acorn so far, including signing a deal for a five figure advance for Brazilian Portuguese rights. Someone has suggested we couldn’t have done a proper pre-press job in the time available. This is spectacularly ill-informed. Publishers often do instant books without compromising quality in any way. We published the first ever book on Sudoku a few years ago. An Oxford mathematician was commissioned on a Friday afternoon, it was written in three days and published the following weekend; the first in the world and international best-seller. That couldn’t have worked if the numbers were wrong could it? Infinite Ideas is a transparent publishing business, run by people who actually do know how publishing works. If you would like to know how publishing really works give me a call on 01865 514888 and ask me any question you like, because I can guarantee you’re not going to get any wiser on this site.
Well done for publicising this.I’m afraid they won’t be getting £1,795 from me.
I wonder if MarciaB is in any way connected with BWA? Methinks she protests too much.
E Thomas wrote:
I’m very pleased for her: but that doesn’t mean that everything is rosy here. Without wishing to patronise Ms Cooper, who has been absolutely fabulous in her responses here (for which I’m very grateful), I’m still a little concerned that things are not quite right here.
Instead of regarding my comments here as sour grapes, perhaps you could regard them as valid concerns that I thought were worth addressing in order to protect those aspiring writers which you and I both champion. I’m not trying to put Ms Cooper down; I think she’s done extraordinarily well with her self-published sales and hope she does even better with this deal; but I also hope she’s not become involved with a clumsy publishing scheme which might put her work, and her rights to it, in jeopardy.
@MarciaB
Your reply is very interesting… You say that you are one of the larger publishers supporting the BWA – would you mind telling us which publishing house you represent? Thanks.
As one of the entrants you suspect of being jealous, I can confirm that I was actually bemused. The piece that I ended up sending to the BWA was utter rubbish, yet it was shortlisted. And the responses to my email queires were… odd. That’s feedback that, as a large publisher affiliated to the BWA, you would, surely, want to take on board?
Broadsword calling Danny Boy,
Broadsword calling Danny Boy…
Debi wrote:
Debi, thanks for posting that link to your blog post: it was a lovely, inspiring read. It’s good to know that Ms Cooper is so pleased with her success; I hope she remains just as pleased.
I’ve read quite a few message board posts which discuss that the gala evening was disorganised and disappointing: was that your experience of the event, or were you surprised to hear that?
Catherine Hughes wrote:
Catherine, you’re not the only person I’ve heard of expressing those same concerns; and that’s partly why I wrote this blog post.
Me too: it’s lovely news, and I’m happy for her, as I’ve already said upstream. I was very concerned that her book was published without a contract in place, but she’s now cleared that point up and as soon as I’ve responded to all these comments I’ll edit that point into my original post.
I’ve always known that as Yog’s Law, which I’ve blogged about here a few times. But it doesn’t relaly matter what it’s called or who came up with the law: the point is that writers understand why it’s so important. Thank you for mentioning it here.
Exactly. Which is pretty much why I blog in the way that I do. If I’ve made mistakes I hope the BWA will turn up and address them, so we can reach a better understanding of what’s gone on, and of what might have gone wrong. That would be good.
I wouldn’t go that far. As I’ve said before, I have no reason to believe that the BWA intends to mislead or exploit: but I do see a number of red flags here, which I discussed in my initial article. I hope I’m wrong; but if I’m not, then I hope people will read this post, and pay attention to it.
Sally Zigmond wrote:
Absolutely. It’s great that Ms Cooper is so pleased.
That was my concern. With this fabulous win under her belt, and all the publicity which has followed, AND the good sales she’s achieved with her self-published edition Ms Cooper had a big advantage. I bet she’d have been able to the attract attention of a good agent, who might well have been able to negotiate a deal much better than the boiler-plate one she seems to have accepted.
But as you said, Sally, that’s so much spilt milk now.
@ Richard Burton:
Hmm. It is possible to pass comment without being rude. So why didn’t you?
Willemijn wrote:
I think it’s good to motivate and inspire; but I also think it’s important to inform and alert writers about things that could damage their careers. I try to do all those things here, and sometimes even get it half right!
As I’ve said to Ms Cooper, I’m glad it’s working well for you.
Jane Smith wrote:
I wouldn’t have gone that far either – up until that email landed in my inbox a few days ago.
Catherine Cooper wrote:
Over the years I’ve had a few contracts checked by the SoA and they’ve never once told me that a contract was “fine”; they’ve always found a few things to comment on, and a few ways in which the contracts could be improved.
Moreover, I am convinced that any half-decent agent would be able to improve on the boiler-plate contract you were offered: it’s what agents do. But I’m very pro-agents, as you might have guessed; and as I’ve written before now it’s too late for that to happen and anyway, if you’re happy with your contract that’s all good.
Um… no. Sorry. I haven’t checked up on who Chandler’s Book Design is: but they sound suspiciously like a book design company, and not like an editing company; and even if CBD did edit your book for you, I’ve seen VERY few self-published books which wouldn’t have benefitted from the sort of editing trade publishers carry out.
@MarciaB Not having heard of this competition until reading Jane’s post, I can’t comment on BWA specifically; however I do feel you’re being a little harsh. Jane’s post has been fair and actually invited responses from any participants as well as the organisers themselves. As a new writer that could easily be misled by unscrupulous companies (without referring to anyone in particular), I’m very grateful for blogs that this that express legitimate concerns and put us on our guard.
Henry wrote:
Henry, I’m glad you enjoyed Catherine Cooper’s book so much.
I note that you and Catherine Cooper share an IP address, which means you’re posting from the same computer.
You might well be her husband, rather than Ms Cooper In Disguise, but if that’s the case it would have been a good idea for you to have made that public when you first commented here: because it means that your opinion, though kind, is not exactly impartial.
Thanks for commenting, anyway.
Very interesting debate all round. I especially enjoyed Henry’s input.
I have to say, I’m a little confused as to why people think Jane is putting down authors. What comes across to me is that a)she’s trying to make sure authors aren’t exploited and b)she’s inviting reasonable, informed discussion.
Sadly, there are a lot of companies taking advantage (financially and legally)of aspiring writers and saying “hey, let’s look at x or y carefully” isn’t being negative, it’s just…common sense.
PS my verification words were “caring hearse”. Eeep!
Jane has raised some genuine questions which deserved to be asked and offered BWA all opportunities to respond. She couldn’t have been fairer.
I’ve never heard of an awards scheme which can apparently raise such substantial sums of money for what is by comparison a modest prize administered by a limited company. Nor have I heard of provisional publishing contracts being heard on condition you win. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong but they’re certainly worthy of discussion.
@ Jane Smith:
Hello again…
Chandler’s don’t edit books they type set and get books ready for printing… I was trying to explain the editing had already taken place.
I can also assure you I am not Henry in disguise, he wanted to add his voice to the posts, which I believe he is entitled to do.
Marcia B wrote:
Hello, Marcia. Welcome to my blog.
No, I didn’t arrange to meet Mr Akram but I did send the BWA several emails, both recently and when there was so much confusion over the shortlistings, but I received no replies.
Marcia, I wasn’t eligible to enter the BWA competition because I’ve had a few books published already. So my blog post wasn’t motivated by envy.
It wasn’t my intention to attack anyone: just to discuss the things that worried me about the BWA. I’ve said repeatedly that I’d be glad if they’d come along to clear things up, and I hope they do: I think we’d all benefit from that.
Oh, that’s funny. VERY funny. Really, REALLY funny. But not at all true.
No, I’m trying to discuss the problems that I see in the BWA’s approach, in an attempt to ensure that writers who get involved in this next competition can be fully informed.
And in my experience, the people who insist that Publishing Is Broken are the ones who Publishing Has Rejected Because Their Work Isn’t Good Enough.
That’s all a bit too much rhetoric for me to respond to seriously, Maria: and to be honest I’m not exactly sure what you mean. Do I detect a hint of rudeness about your comments here, or is that my nasty suspicious mind swinging into action again? I do hope so.
Funnily enough, I used to work for Mr B. He told me several times that my approach to work was creative, innovative and fun. He is a fab man (he also said that I had the best legs he’d seen in software, but that’s an entirely different matter).
Sorry, you’ve lost me.
But I’m NOT sorry! Not one bit! Nor am I remotely envious of you, Ms Cooper or anyone else you care to mention. OK, so I wish I were still young and slim enough to entrance Mr Branson but as my husband finds me absolutely captivating as I am, I am not VERY envious of my former self.
Which publisher would that be, then, Marcia? You’ve not told us anywhere, nor have you provided a valid link to any website; do tell us.
My blog post wasn’t an attack: it was my attempt to look at the strengths and weaknesses of the BWA. And I think you overestimate the reaction of the publishing business: most of it is entirely unaware of the BWA’s existence. But as you said–only time will tell.
I’ve made nothing up, Marcia. In my original report I provided links to all of my source material and made it clear when I was speculating. I also took great pains to ensure that people who supported the BWA would be welcome to join in this discussion and to be honest I’m a bit disappointed that with the notable exception of Ms Cooper (and Henry!) most of the supporters of the BWA have, like you, decided to be less than polite in their comments. Ah, well. I guess that tells me something.
I shall look forward to your return. I’m especially keen to hear which publisher you represent.
A great blog post and you know I agree. Also excellent comments and great to see Catherine Cooper here. I had an email from BWA tonight. It’s long so I’m posting an extract.
The rest of it, if you’re interested, is over in comments on my blog here: http://www.claire-king.com/2010/12/03/too-good-to-be-true/comment-page-1/#comment-535
email:
We have been following your blogs and I thought it would be useful to clarify further with you.
We are not in the habit of getting into arguments on online writing forums – we want our work to speak for itself, but as with all innovative bold initiatives that challenge the status quo, we do expect controversy and debate, so when people that have had positive experiences come out in defence of the BWA, it’s really encouraging.
Regarding the comments being made about the BWA and in particular our Publishing Programme, I just wanted to let you know of the following facts and hope that we can count on your support.
As this is a groundbreaking initiative we know there are lots of questions out there, but you’ll appreciate that we’re creating a new model here which we believe will revolutionise the way people get published in the future. What everyone knows for sure is that the current system is not working – as a result, the publishing industry is overly complicated, elitist and inaccessible and even the ‘top’ publishing houses are having to resort to publishing trashy celebrity novels to make ends meat, rather than find those gems THAT WE KNOW EXIST OUT THERE.
We know that the ‘one-stop-shop’ model that we’re developing here is difficult to come to terms with for an industry that is so set in its ways and we will have to be forgiven if we don’t answer all questions as we do not want to give it all away at this early stage – but over the next few months, we are going to unveil lots of new ideas as part of this programme.
As part of the publishing programme, the BWA’s substantial network of experts, agents and publishers (we do not work with vanity publishers and this programme will not involve self-publishing) will work with the author in an intensive way according to the their needs, to ensure the authors work is published by a traditional publisher, but not necessarily via the traditional route and that’s where the difference lies.
It is through these agents and experts, their connections within the publishing industry and the relationships that we have built up over the last 18 months, that we will ensure the success of the programme. It would be unprofessional of us at this stage for us to share our confidential plans and contacts. However, any expertise that we do not have in-house we will buy in at no additional cost to the author.
Again, as above, we are working with experts from our partner organisation, agents, PR, marketing and business consultants – people like yourself who have many years of experience within the publishing industry and understand what works and what doesn’t.
We have had many applications and we will be announcing the final 15 on Monday 13 December so do look out for that.
Please feel free to share this information with your networks.
Kindest regards
Zareen
Zareen Roohi Ahmed
Brit Writers Head of Operations
http://www.britwriters.co.uk
[PLEASE NOTE: I HAVE DELETED MS AHMED'S CONTACT INFORMATION FROM THIS COMMENT FOR DATA PROTECTION REASONS, BUT HAVE MADE NO OTHER CHANGES--Jane]
Susie Nott-Bower wrote:
Susie, you’re one of several writers who have had that experience. I hope that the BWA will turn up and explain what went wrong there, or at least let everyone know what they were shortlisted for. Perhaps they could post a list of shortlisted writers on their website, along with the shortlisted titles? They should be able to do that in a few minutes and I’m sure it would put people’s minds to rest.
Richard Burton wrote:
Mr Burton, I’m sorry you dislike my blog so much. And I agree: there is some ignorance on this blog about how publishing really works; most of it is in the comments that I’ve attracted from people who are upset that I’ve focussed on their peculiar schemes and initiatives.
I sent several emails to the BWA, which is the main focus of this blog post: but not a single one was replied to.
It wasn’t my intention to vilify you, or your company: just to raise a few questions which concern me, and several other publishing professionals I know. I’ve only worked in publishing for about 27 years, so I’m well aware that I don’t know everything there is to know about the business: but next time I have a question I’ll ask you. Thanks for the kind offer. (And yes, that is a joke and yes, I am trying to lighten the tone here because it seems to me you’ve come in here steaming mad, and I don’t see the point in arguing if we absolutely don’t have to.)
But you do have a self-publishing arm, don’t you? Infinite Authors? I included a link to it in my original blog post.
200 titles in print? That’s a big number. I notice from your website that Infinite Ideas only started in 2004, which means you’ve published thirty three books a year, or three a month. That’s one heck of an output for an independent publisher.
I don’t doubt any of that for a moment.
Good: publishers SHOULD be proud to publish the books on their list. Has Infinite Ideas ever published any YA titles before publishing The Golden Acorn?
I thought you looked like a packager because of this bit from your website:
That strongly implies to me that you’ve packaged books for those brands. Because that’s what the packager I used to work for did, and it’s how other packagers I’ve known have operated.
But according to your website, that self publishing platform is operating already. At least, that’s what is implied.
That, right there, is a big red flag for me. There’s a conflict of interests as far as I can see: it’s similar to the Harlequin Horizons scheme which funnelled rejected writers into DellArte press, a vanity publishing scheme run by AuthorSolutions. That was considered so dodgy that the RWA announced that Harlequin was no longer eligible for full membership, if I remember rightly.
But it will, because it’ll be part of the same parent company, won’t it? Will any staff work for the two operations? You’ve implied that you’ll send the writers you reject to Infinite Authors; can’t you see how dodgy this might be? Even if your intentions are good (and I repeat: I have no reason to believe that they’re not) you’re getting into murky waters here. Unless there’s something huge I’m missing, which is quite possible.
To take legal action against me for my comments here you’d have to show that those comments caused you monetary loss so you have no grounds to do so, however you might bluster at me. And now that Ms Cooper has explained how she had agreed to the contract before her book was published, that issue has been dealt with.
Me too. I think Ms Cooper has deported herself very well here: she’s an excellent example of grace under fire, and I think you could learn a lesson or two from her.
Did The Bookseller misquote you? Or misrepresent you in any way? If so, I’m sure they’d be happy to put the record straight. And if you’ve been ridiculed in the comments here, I’ve not noticed: I’ll have another look through the comments stream and check it out, because I won’t have that.
I worked as an editor for years and I have to disagree with you here. I don’t think a book can be properly edited in the space of just a month; nor do I think it can be edited without the input of the author. The book has the author’s name on the cover: she has to approve of the editing that’s done to her work.
Funny you should say that: my maths-prodigy son used to do a lot of Sudoku puzzles and three times he was given Sudoku books which contained several mathematical errors.
And with all due respect, a collection of Sudoku puzzles isn’t quite the same as a YA novel, and nor would it require the same back-and-forth editing that fiction needs.
Mr Burton, making ad hominem attacks on me doesn’t change the fact that I saw several things to worry about in the BWA competition; and I’m afraid that all you’ve managed to do is to present you and your company in a very poor light. Thank goodness for Ms Cooper and her thoughtful, elegant remarks.
Sorry, everyone, that’s all I can respond to for now: I have children to shout at and dogs to kick around the kitchen. I’ll do my best to get back to this in a couple of hours, but might not quite manage it.
In the meantime, I’d appreciate it if everyone could do their best to remain civil and open to debate: Ms Cooper has set us an excellent standard to follow. If I see anything here which I consider potentially libellous or insulting I won’t hesitate to smack your knuckles or edit your comments if I feel it necessary. Let’s all play nice.
@ Claire King:
Did they really write?
“…publishing houses are having to resort to publishing trashy celebrity novels to make ends meat, rather than find those gems”
Marvellous, meat ends sound slightly rude.
Oh Jane – all this just says one thing to me and that is, the only way to really get published is the hard way. You do do the hard work of writing first, then the hard work of submitting, then (if you are very lucky) the hard work of working with the editor etc etc. There is no easy way to do it properly…sigh. I am off to hunt for someone to read my carefully arranged cat hairs…
Claire, I’ve edited Ms Ahmed’s contact phone number out of your post as I’m just a bit uncomfortable having it there without her permission. I’ve made no other changes.
I’ve added a small update to my original post which people might like to have a look at: take a look at the final paragraph of my post. It seems that Gordon Brown was very reluctant to leave office. Ha!
Zareen Roohi Ahmed’s letter is extraordinary on so many front I don’t know where to begin. How can any third party claim they will ‘ensure the authors (sic – boy those apostrophes are difficult) work is published by a traditional publisher’? The finest agent in the land can’t say that. Publishers decide what they want to publish. No one else – and quite rightly.
This episode is frankly deeply worrying. Is BWA an awards ceremony? A training organisation for wannabe writers? Where is all the money it raises from training and entrance fees going? After all it’s a limited company which hasn’t even filed accounts as far as I can see, not an open charity or organisation.
You did a service by bringing this out into the open, Jane. I hope it will get further attention from others from now on.
As if the publishing world wasn’t daunting enough for us wannabes, we now have to tell the goodies from the baddies. It is often their own words and actions that unmask them, but I’m glad I have the support and guidance of blogs like this one, which are written by people who really want to help unpublished writers and take the time to look into the issues that worry us, without any profit motive in mind.
Thanks again Jane, may your “envy” lead you to keep digging.
This is all so funny!!!
I don’t think people understand that The BWA is not merely an awards outfit but also has other programmes that run alongside it that are involved in supporting schools and communities across the country. I can vouch for this as I am a Primary school teacher in Birmingham and we have been using their creative writing programme for the past 2 years.
As teachers we always look for innovative ways to make writing ‘cool’ and let me assure you all that the BWA have done just that. This cost our school £100.00 for the year which was for a range of lesson plans, creative writing resources and worked with us to even set up other projects. There is nothing out there that compares to this programme. I would like to add we received the programme free this year.
Here is one example of their work in Coventry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qQeqZicfWg
It seems to me that those on this site are prof / published writers and should be focussing on awards such as the Orange Book Prize or Galaxy book awards and not BWA, which has been set up specifically to encourage unpublished writers from all ages and backgrounds, giving them a platform to launch their careers from through their wide range of networks.
In addition, I have attended a free BWA workshop which was delivered in Aston University, Birmingham, a few weeks ago which was delivered by Louise Jordan, a highly experienced and professional trainer from the Writers Advice Centre. The half-day session was incredibly useful and I would recommend it to anyone interested in writing.
In my experience, I have not come across any organisation that is able to do so much work for our schools and offer free intensive writing courses – do you?
When I see our children and parents writing stories together, the excitement on their faces as the plots become clearer is inspiring! Witnessing the time being spent between parents & children is key to our own school ethos – how can anyone even try to dismiss such valuable contribution this BWA programme is bringing into our communities?
I think it’s about time we gave them some credit for what they do.
@ T. Squires:
Here here!
Well said T Squires and Cartherine and Richard. I won in the Poetry category and have so far been contacted about being promoted / published plus a music/poetry project for schools and been asked to open next years event. I was also contacted by the BBC for an interview. There is NO way that any of this would have happened without the BWA. I have succeeded in being published before the BWA with various journals & anthologies but for me this was quite an achievement. Things are moving. Hard work pays off.
Oh good grief: I go away to write a few thousand words for publication by the broken mainstream model and come back to find a stushie.
“…publishing houses are having to resort to publishing trashy celebrity novels to make ends meat, rather than find those gems” Ahem. I’ll ignore the meaty bit but I’d like to point out that trashy celebrity novels are irritating to all of us but they do help provide the income (except when they bomb) with which publishing houses can take risks with good literature, too. They often make commercial sense, much as we might dislike the idea. They are not a symptom of publishing being broken.
David Hewson sums it up for me.
And Jane, I’m confused about the BWA, very full of admiration for Catherine Cooper’s dignity and success, but also want to express my support for what you do on this blog: you raise questions, prick bubbles, tell it as it is. Your site is rightly called How Publishing Really Works. Yes, there are some other ways in which it might work, and all credit to those who push boundaries, but there are also many ways in which it doesn’t and you are right to ask questions about any new venture because there are so many that are detrimental to good writing. If this one isn’t, wonderful – but let’s have it all transparent.
@ Marcia B:
I’m not a great blogger. But I do have a particular interest in the BWA, so I have spent a few hours reading and re-reading postings, both on this site and others.
I applaud you, Marcia. I was saddened to read all the negativity, regarding the BWA. I entered last year, bought VIP tickets and had a fabulous night. So did the friends who joined me.
I am a qualified Coach and Mentor and I work with people from all walks of life, who have a variety of occupations. I don’t have to be an expert in their field, to work successfully with them.
I have parted with £1795 which is a large amount of money for me, so my decision was not taken lightly. Perhaps reading the posts here, should make me doubt the wisdom of parting with my hard earned money, but do you know what? It doesn’t.
I have been very happy with BWA so far and I am keen to work with them, in the future. I will post here again, in December 2011, with the outcome. That way, you will know for sure, whether the BWA has fulfilled its promise.
Perhaps it would be more constructive, Jane, if you simply wrote a list of your concerns, with supporting reasons, for people to consider. It seems to me that there is a negative response to each positive statement that has been written. Shame. When this happens, it does appear to be more of an attack on the BWA, than something written out of concern for other writers.
Finally, I would just like to say ‘Well done, Catherine’. I’m so pleased for you.
That ‘money should flow towards the author’ thing is a great testing of the waters, and in this case, the money is decidedly flowing away from the author. The top publisher is no doubt the same one used for Catherine’s book this year, with their strong vanity publishing arm attached. They’re hardly what most people would consider commercially a ‘top’ publisher – but that’s the joy of using abstract terms like this: one man’s opinion is another man’s con. And I can’t help wondering if, once this year’s fifteen authors are ‘successfully’ published, next year won’t see something tantamount to youwriteon’s 5000 books fiasco. This is something to steer well clear of in my opinion. There are plenty of really helpful consultants out there to hand your hard earned cash over to, who won’t make false promises of easy success in a tough tough game.
good point!
@ T. Squires:
I’d say you’re getting a bargain if you get the ‘Writers Advice Centre’ for that price. I just looked up their fees here.
http://www.writersadvice.co.uk/fees/fees-services
An appraisal of just 1000 words will cost you £75 and a read of a 60K manuscript £350. You can speak to the person running the service by phone but only on a premium rate phone number at £1.20 a minute. ‘Mentoring’ will cost you £1,500.
I don’t believe writers should pay for this kind of advice or frankly need it. If you want to know how books work read some. That’s what most professionals did. If you can’t get the hang of things that way, I very much doubt anyone will instil it in you, however much you pay them.
“It seems to me that there is a negative response to each positive statement that has been written.”
It’s called discussion: someone makes a statement about their experience, other people examine it in the light of their experience and/or specialist knowledge, as to whether what you’ve said has wider implications than your individual experience. Saying that the wider implications are negative doesn’t mean the individual experience wasn’t positive.
If you have a good experience in a hospital with a terrible record, it doesn’t mean your experience wasn’t good. But it doesn’t mean it’s a good hospital either, and it’s still fair to warn others before they allow themselves to be referred there.
This is a really interesting blog.
I entered four books in the BWA competition last year.
I was thrilled when I had an email to tell me that I was shortlisted in the top thirty and was given two free tickets to the award’s ceremony.
They hadn’t told me which book had been shortlisted though and as I wanted to add this win to my writing CV I needed to know. So I emailed BWA and asked which book it was. No answer. I emailed again. No answer. I tried all the available email addresses, with various names, again and again. No answer. So I still don’t know which book it was!
I went to the evening award’s ceremony with a friend.
For us it was a real let down.
We had standard tickets and were shown to the balcony seats and just left. We were offered no refreshment or nibbles. We didn’t see an exhibition area,but more importantly there was no opportunity to mingle with publishers, authors or agents as had been promised. And Roger Moore wasn’t there as billed and I had been hoping to see him! ( I was an avid ‘The Saint’ fan)
It was a very disappointing evening. I hope that the organisation is better next time.
David C. Byrne wrote:
‘Hear, hear.’
Three things linger in my mind having read all this last night.
1. Well done, Catherine Cooper, for your temperate response. I hope you do very well. It’s a shame the publisher used such intemperate language on a forum popular with professional writers who are sensitive about words; he came across as emotional and unprofessional.
2. It strikes me that hiring a decent PR and events company would have got past many of the problems. So why the heck didn’t they?
3. A footnote, really: I wonder, given the BWA’s desire to pull a rabbit – or book – out of the hat for the event means that self-published books have an advantage in this competition. That doesn’t seem reasonable (although I remain pleased that Catherine is pleased).
@Zareen Roohi Ahmed, Brit Writers Head of Operations
“As this is a groundbreaking initiative we know there are lots of questions out there, but you’ll appreciate that we’re creating a new model here which we believe will revolutionise the way people get published in the future….We know that the ‘one-stop-shop’ model that we’re developing here is difficult to come to terms with for an industry that is so set in its ways”
- This worries me. On the one hand they are claiming the writers will be published by “top publishers”, but on the other they are calling their business model a “one stop shop” which implies the 15 writers will be mentored, edited, published and promoted by Infinite Ideas. This may be fine (proof is in the book sales figures), but ‘transparency’ it’s not.
“What everyone knows for sure is that the current system is not working”
- Seriously? 4 writers I know personally have signed with agents via the traditional slush-pile route in the past fortnight, and one is in the process of signing a 3 book deal with a top publisher. Where is it broken?
Yes, if I go on Authonomy I can line up dozens of naive writers who think the current system isn’t working and have opted for the self-publishing route and would probably also sign up to this BWA promotion, but it seems to me they’ve just swallowed the same ‘new world’ publishing hype that companies like Infinite Ideas seem to be spouting to all and sundry. Let’s not forget what happened to another publisher that tried to buck the system – The Friday Project.
@Marcia B
“As one of the larger supporting Publishers of this initiative”
- A lot of emails have been sent to BWA asking who the other publishers are, but still no-one from the company appears to have addressed this question.
I am so pleased that this discussion is taking place.
I recall that for a fee of £10 one could submit as many stories as one liked to last years BWA. I was surprised at this, assuming that people would swamp the judges just in case one was a fit. I sent a coupIe in myself and was delighted to receive an email saying that one of my stories had made the top 30. I work in a tiny writing group of 5 and one of my colleagues was also in the top 30. I think we felt that whilst we both hope we’re good enough to get that far, statistically it felt a wee bit unlikely. We decided we were being too cynical. I emailed BWA and asked which story made the list. Obviously if I have a story good enough to stand out in such a crowd I’ll send it right back out. They never replied. They do however send emails that I consider to be adverts/spam to me.
I was offered a complimentary ticket but didn’t go. I would have done if I was a finalist, of course. It sounded like such a fantastic prize, and having read Debi Alper’s blog about the winner I was delighted for her. I’m happy to know that she’s still happy.
This is all very different from being invited to pay a substantial chunk of money for guaranteed publication. I’m concerned that it will lead to something akin to vanity publishing. I don’t know that it will, but it is a vital question to ask and I am grateful to Jane for doing just that. I suppose my idea of a top publisher is different from that of BWA, and I think they appear to be offering something possibly unrealistic which potentially does writers no favours. The opposite of their statement of intent in fact.
During the last 18 months, the Brit Writers’ Awards Unpublished (BWA) has grown to become fastest growing network of writers of all ages and backgrounds and the largest creative writing initiative in the UK. The BWA is not just an awards event and it is not a book prize. More importantly it’s a campaign to trigger a revival of a love for creative writing. This campaign is delivered through key divisions including schools, communities, businesses and aspiring individual writers.
In the past few days there has been a certain amount of on-line discussion about how the Brit Writers’ Awards are operated and that has questioned the structure and motivation of the Brit Writers’ Awards. Some fairly inaccurate assumptions have been made in some of these discussions and we, at the Brit Writers’ Awards, would very much like to set the record straight on several key points.
1) Winners & finalists copyright. It has been suggested that the Brit Writers Awards infringed the winning writer’s copyright by going ahead and publishing the book without her approval. In fact, all potential winners were given and signed a contract before the awards agreeing to their work’s publication should they win the main prize. The potential winners involved were aware of this and were in agreement with it as it was a key element of the prize. Nobody’s intellectual property was infringed and all of this was dealt with in a completely transparent and contractually sound manner. We are proud of Catherine Cooper’s success to date; she is a very deserving winner and will bring much joy to children through her wonderful books.
2) The chosen publisher. It has been suggested that the publisher of the winning book was either a book packager or a vanity press outfit, in fact Infinite Ideas are a long-established and well-respected publishing company with good UK retail distribution and a major international standing. They are a completely genuine and reputable publisher and the Brit Writers’ Awards are honoured to work with them. The BWA works with a wide network of organisations from the publishing industry many of whom, including some of the world’s largest publishing houses were represented at the 2010 awards in London on 15 July.
3) The financial backing for the prize. It’s been suggested that twenty thousand plus people paid to enter the prize thus making it a huge money-spinner for the BWA. In actual fact over 80% of the entrants to the prize did not pay any entry fee – all schools pupils, teachers and parents were allowed to enter for free. Members of BWA partner organisations were also allowed to enter for free e.g. all subscribers of Writers News were given free entry to upload as many entries as they wished. Out of 21,000 entries only 1,400 entrants paid the £10.95 entry fee which funded the £10,000 cash prize to the winner
4) 2010 Awards judging: Many did not make it to the 2nd or 3rd round of judging – the 3rd round was still part of the long list – following which there was a short-list from which finalists were selected. The BWA discouraged entrants that were rejected early in the competition from making their results known publicly, especially via online forums as this would be detrimental to their credibility as writers and the BWA certainly would not make such information public due to respect for the confidentiality and privacy of its entrants.
5) The schools programme. It has been suggested that this is not a serious education outreach programme and doesn’t offer anything material to the participating schools, however the schools programme actually benefits around a million children, their parents and teachers and offers the following free of charge:
- Creative Writing Lesson Plans for Key Stages 1-4
- ‘How To’ articles on writing tips for children and adults
- Inspirational features, puzzles and activities for children and parents
- Support in delivery of special creative writing projects
- Author visits with creative writing workshops
- Support for running internal writing competitions
- Free entry to the Brit Writers’ Awards Unpublished 2011
- £5,000 prize to the winning school in the Brit Writers’ Awards 2011
The BWA provided this service at a charge of £150 per school last year, however it is now free to all schools through the support of our Schools Territory Partners.
This service has been provided completely free of charge to special needs schools since its inception
The Brit Writers’ Awards aims to be unconventional and to attempt to do something new and challenging in the writing world, so we are not surprised that they generate some controversy. However, at a point when the BWA have announced its innovative 2011 BWA Publishing Programme for 15 writers, we feel it is crucial to make sure that how we operate and what we aim to do in the delivery of this model is completely transparent, therefore regular updates will be provided on the progress of the selected 15 candidates. This programme is about creating a new model for the publishing industry and the fee for the programme will pay for the intensive one to one support and expertise that the BWA will be buying in from its network of credible partners – with a view to developing each author and his/her book so that a publishing deal can then be brokered between the writer and a reputable publisher. The selected 15 will be announced on Monday 13 December 2010 on the BWA’s website.
I felt Jane was being a little hard on Catherine, implying the quality of the edit must be poor, so I checked around and the reviews are all positive, with no mention of poor editing.
However, when I googled Infinite Ideas the first website to come up is headed “Inspirational Self Help Publishing- 52 Brilliant ideas”, and the introduction page touts: “Our self publishing programme provides help for authors who want to produce professional quality books and publish them themselves.”
Even their blog posts tout the self-publishing model, eg in How to get published in tough times: “Fewer libraries, buying fewer books will mean many new authors will need to consider self publishing as an option in the future.”
And again, in the blog post, Books, self publishing and the Irish market: “All of which spells trouble for Irish writers looking to get published for the first time. If everyone is cutting back on their output in a general belt-tightening exercise, new writers are going to have to consider self publishing as a route to getting into print.”
And it goes on…. Their ‘get published page’: “You can always look at self-publishing as an option. That means that you do get published and you’re absolutely in control of the process. Click here to find out how Infinite Ideas can help you.”
If Infinite Ideas want to be taken seriously as a proper publisher they are going to have to separate out the self-publishing from the rest, because all this screams to me Self-Publisher, and I will be telling other writers to avoid them if they want to be taken seriously as published authors.
I entered the BWA competition with several stories last year. I received various emails to say I had been successful in reaching later stages of the competition. When I contacted writers I knew they had received the same emails.
This worries me. Especially when some people enquired about which of their entries were shortlisted and BWA did not respond. I can imagine possible reasons for this that I don’t like to imagine. I will not be entering the BWA this year and won’t be sending any more money to them.
The more I think about it the more I come to the unpalatable conclusion that Caroline has been been an unwitting patsy in all this. With Infinite Ideas pushing self-publishing so hard, they can now point to Caroline’s book and say ‘Look it works. Self publish and you will get the attention of a proper publisher’. The undeniable fact, though, is that Caroline has attracted the attention of a vanity publisher who is marketting themselves through the Brit Writers Awards as a ‘proper’ publisher. Calling it a new and novative business model, does not change the fact that, shorn of it’s marketting hype it’s vanity publishing.
As the old adage goes, You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
This publisher has been rumbled.
If the ‘winners’ of the fifteen places on the latest scheme are yet to be announced, why does one commenter state that she has already paid her £1795? (Sali Grey, above)
Surely the money would only be taken from those who successfully earn a place on the scheme?
oops, apologies for calling Catherine, ‘Caroline’.
This may be a tad off-piste (feel free to delete if so, Jane), but I find it deeply, deeply irritating when people say publishing is broken because of celeb biogs.
I haven’t met anyone in the publishing industry who doesn’t care about their product. They know that celeb biogs are hardly Virginia Woolf, but selling them will often fund the more literary book that everyone in the office loves but isn’t going to make much money, however much you try. It enables you to build up careers for authors whose first book won’t make much profit, but you think their third one will.
Also, although I’m never going to buy or stock Jordan’s book, but I might buy a cricketer’s biog for my dad or Judi Dench’s for my grandma.
Publishers who base their USP on taking books that are “overlooked” make me nervous because the implication is that people get rejected because publishers don’t care about literature, and not because of the writer themselves. I’m sure that good stuff *does* get rejected, but writers also need to be honest with themselves.
Dear Mr Imran Akram
Until very recently, I was an unpublished author and although now not eligible to enter the awards I am still interested in anything which helps unpublished writers achieve publication and understand the publishing industry.
Whilst I am sure your heart is in the right place, (and I wish the winner every success in the future)I am worried by much of what the BWA has done and is doing. I cannot discuss all the points you raise here but this simple statement regarding Infinite Ideas struck me as very odd indeed and I quote:
“It has been suggested that the publisher of the winning book was either a book packager or a vanity press outfit, in fact Infinite Ideas are a long-established and well-respected publishing company with good UK retail distribution and a major international standing.”
I’ve just checked their website. http://www.infideas.com where I found this. Again, I quote:
“Infinite Ideas is a little more than 5 years old and in that short time we have published more than 150 titles that have helped tens of thousands of readers become inspired to change their lives.”
Fine. But “a little more than 5 years old” is not what I would call “long-established.” Also, 150 titles in 5 years is a huge amount and I wonder what their profit margins have been and how they can afford to continue. Most small publishers struggle unless they have taken the decision to earn their money from writers. I do not know whether this is the case here or not but I would love to read their accounts. Although I am not in a position to know whether they are “well respected” or not, to me, the whole feel of the website is that of a vanity company rather than a mainstream publisher. I would be delighted if I am wrong.
There’s an awful lot on the website that rings alarm bells for me and is too vague to be confirmed either way but I would urge everyone to study it closely. As far as I can see most of their output is self-help or how-to books ( which they assure me will have me weeping with joy. Huh?)
As I said, Mr Akram, I am sure your heart is in the right place but in order to mend something (in this case mainstream publishing) one has to know enough about it in order to judge whether it’s broken or not. It may be going through hard times but I am yet to be convinced it’s broken. But what worries me the most is that the BWA is preying on the hopes of desperate (and young) writers whilst obfuscating the truth.)
Something is bothering me here.
In my article I wrote,
Ms Cooper was then kind enough to confirm that she had no idea that her book was going to be published in time for the prizewinning. I pointed out that if no contract had been signed for that publication, Infinite Ideas didn’t have the rights to publish it.
Mr Burton of Infinite Ideas then stepped in and wrote,
However, Ms Cooper suggested that she had NOT signed a publishing contract before her book was published. This is what she wrote:
I might have got this wrong: but as I understand it, Ms Cooper had not signed a publishing contract at the point at which her book was published by Infinite Ideas. She had signed an agreement to sign a publishing contract; but not the contract itself.
It’s been suggested to me that it’s legally problematical to sign an agreement to sign an agreement: if there’s any chance that the final agreement is going to be negotiated in any way it’s impossible to agree to sign it until that negotiating is done. Now, this might not be the case here in that Infinite Ideas might have made clear that the contract was non-negotiable, in which case this is, apparently, legally acceptable. But it does seem a bit off to me to only offer a non-negotiable deal.
Mind you, it seems to work for Macmillan New Writers; but I don’t know any writer with a good agent who would recommend this.
Naomi wrote:
Naomi, my point was that I couldn’t see how a novel could be edited well when (a) there was only a month to get it to publication and (b) when the author wasn’t involved in that editing process. This has nothing to do with Ms Cooper, who clearly wasn’t involved at all in bringing her book to the market.
Ms Cooper has now confirmed that her book was not edited by Infinite Ideas because it had already been edited before she self-published it. I’m always wary about the quality of books which aren’t professionally edited: but if Ms Cooper and Infinite Ideas are happy with this edition, there’s little more to say about that.
As you know, I’m very concerned about trade publishers getting involved with self- and vanity-publishing. It’s a clear conflict of interests for them. I don’t know a single publisher which has done this successfully, but I think we’ll be seeing quite a few more get involved in such activities before too long and I’m interested to see how it pans out for them–and for the writers they publish, on both sides of the business. That doesn’t mean that I like this idea: but it’s happening and we can only watch and learn.
Imran Akram wrote:
I would like to respond to this. Why would not being placed in a competition be detrimental to one’s credibility as a writer? Especially in a competition with 21,000 entries.
BWA discouraged people from going public, really? As far as I remember the process was “if you receive an email saying you’re through to the next round, well done. If you do not hear from us then sorry, better luck next time.” In what format was communication made to those who did not progress in the competition?
It seems as though I’m pressing on a small point here, the continued inconsistencies do not help with credibility.
Good point, Claire. This jarred with me too.
“Imran Akram wrote:
4) 2010 Awards judging: Many did not make it to the 2nd or 3rd round of judging – the 3rd round was still part of the long list – following which there was a short-list from which finalists were selected. The BWA discouraged entrants that were rejected early in the competition from making their results known publicly, especially via online forums as this would be detrimental to their credibility as writers and the BWA certainly would not make such information public due to respect for the confidentiality and privacy of its entrants.”
May I ask why the names of those of us who made it to the Top 30 were not published on the BWA site? It would have been good to see and most encouraging for us. I also still wonder why the queries about which piece made it to the top 30 went unanswered. I feel that if people had been able to see the longlists and had their emails responded to there would be far less a sense of unease. As it is I can’t shake my suspicions.
Claire King wrote:
No indeed, if we wrote books the way BWA ran their organisation…
This whole thing reminds me of casinos who prey on the dreams and aspirations of punters, only to have the cold light of day hit when they walk out the door.
I’m a reluctant blogger and a private person, so I would be grateful if you would bear with me whilst I outline my case as one of the 15 aspiring authors chosen by the BWA for their publishing programme. You will read in the BWA posts that those of us chosen were notified on a daily basis, so there is no intrigue built into that equation.
I have read so many posts by now offering well-meaning advice and caution, as well as others questioning my motives. Related points are being raised many times over, which amounts to overkill. At least, it seems like that to me.
I hope that you will accept me as being in possession of a modicum of intelligence (or so I’m told), and capable of making decisions based on a great deal of consideration.
This is my situation:
I am not new to writing. It’s in my genes. If hard work and perseverance always equate to success, I might have been published a long time ago. Unfortunately, for me, the fact that I write for children in a lyrical voice counts against me at every turn. The doors are well ant truly closed. Some of you may well argue that this is not the case, but that has not been my experience. Should anyone present a valid argument countering this suggestion and are able to back it up, I shall stand corrected.
Agents and publishers alike have praised my writing for its uniqueness and literary content. However, responses never vary in that the contentious issue of co-editing versus commercial interest prevails. This is especially the case for a new author. The Gruffalo analogy will inevitably hatch, if you’ll allow me the pun, so I’ll be the first to raise it. Whenever I refer to the success of this superb book, the explanation given is that Julia Donaldson was a published author before she wrote in the medium of rhythm and rhyme. Counts me out then!
Children love lyricism, rhythm and rhyme and nothing would give me more pleasure than to champion its resurgence within mainstream publishing to a far greater extent than is the case currently. My stories are not reliant on lyricism. They would, in fact, translate quite easily due to the strength of the underlying plots and structures. This I have learned along with a great deal more relating to writing for children, through diligence, expensive writing courses and intuition. This, I believe, is a valid point. Courses and how to books can and do lead to the final hurdle, at which point these particular donkeys often refuse to jump.
I have sufficient faith in my concept to have made the decision to commission a first-class illustrator/animator who shares with me a vision and a sense of fun and surrealism. Our collaboration has brought to life an ethereal world inhabited by cultish characters that I hope you might see in print one day, and actually enjoy.
This is where my collaboration with the BWA becomes relevant. I had thought long and hard about self-publishing before I entered their first competition, in which I reached the third round of judging. This spurred me on to further polish my manuscripts, which was no bad thing. Yes, the organisation of the event is something that will require attention next year, but I’m pleased that I attended in order to assess the event for myself. The venture is new and has yet to prove itself, but my dealings with the BWA have not left me feeling exploited in any way. Should I experience a measure of Catherine’s success because of their encouragement, then I shall feel happy to have burned my bridges, to quote a previous post.
I find the entrepreneurial aspects involved with self-publishing off-putting. Much better to spend my time writing, don’t you agree? The choice to spend a lesser sum for the services on offer within the publication programme makes better sense to me. It has a money-back guarantee and I have no doubt that I shall learn a lot along the way. It’s my prerogative, as is the case for all who disagree with me who wish to warn others away.
I will no doubt be scrutinised, along with others enrolled on the programme. Would you be kind enough to judge me on my writing above all else? I trust and believe that you will.
For ANONYMOUS, please read E Thomas. My mistake.
It sounds, E. Thomas, as though you are going into this in the full and cartain knowledge that since traditional publishing has failed you, you are happy to go with a business model that is, to all intents and purposes, vanity publishing. You are in effect paying to be published.
@ Naomi:
I’ve made my point courteously Naomi. It is truthful and open for others to judge me by its content.
E Thomas. I will happily write to you at length about what worries me about the BWA venture but I cannot do it here. (My email address is sallyzigmond at gmail dot com) I was published by a small but mainstream publisher earlier this year at no expense to myself and was paid a modest advance and whilst I acknowledge that achieving publication is not easy (it never was) it is achievable if one goes about it the right way and writes something publishers want rathger than something you think they should want.
All writers must have faith and confidence in their own writing and you certainly have that in spades. But what worries me about your post is firstly that you have paid for expensive courses (which ones I wonder and why?) but you do not say anything about your target age group and where your writing fits in.What is your target age-group? What is your subject? Is it relevant to children today? Are you confident you have a ready young audience longing to read your lyrical fiction or parents and teachers to buy it? Good publishers need to make a profit from book buyers, not writers, which is why they have to be absolutely sure they can sell your work without a loss. It is also not usual for a writer to team up with an illustrator before acceptance by a publisher. Usually the publisher will match a writer to a known illustrator (such as Dahl and Blake.) Maybe you have been unjustly rejected by agents. I don’t know. I haven’t read your work but if no-one has shown any interest other than to tell you your writing is unique (which I’m afraid sounds like a polite brush-off to me) , you may be targeting the wrong agents in the wrong way, writing the wrong books or not writing well enough. Doors are not closed but it’s up to the writer to understand how to open them. But one thing I know paying money to a publishing scheme doesn’t open doors. It closes them.
Thank you Sally for your measured and polite response and the invitation to make contact. I don’t wish to continue a dialogue on this site because blogging and blogging again is not my thing. No criticism intended.
Sally said: “Doors are not closed but it’s up to the writer to understand how to open them.” Oh yes. And E Thomas, I too write for children, and I know quite a bit about it, and voices, including lyrical ones! Writing in rhyme stops publishers being able to do essential co-editions – essential because of the state of the market today. This we need to know, whether published or self-published. Your information about Julia Donaldson, a friend of mine, is not accurate – she is published because of her lyricism, not in spite of it. I really sympathise with your struggle to become published – I think I’m glad self-publishing wasn’t around when I was struggling, otherwise I might have been tempted and I know I’d have struggled even more. I’ve seen the struggles from both sides, I really have. It’s tough, however you do it. The problem isn’t publishers: it’s getting readers to pay dosh to read our work.
Congratulations again to Jane for being so measured and clear.
On a slightly different tack, I’m also concerned that the ‘selected’ candidates for these places have not (unless I’m missing something) been asked to submit a single sample of their writing. They are asked to send two paragraphs:
How do I join this programme?
· Send an email to zar...@britwriters.co.uk
· In the subject header type: The Publishing Programme – Application
· In the body of the email, please include 2 paragraphs (maximum 500 words each):
· First paragraph: About You, the author (tell us about you, your background and why you should be selected as one of our 15)
· Second paragraph: About Your book (the concept and why you think, if published, it would become a best seller)
How on earth can the initiative choose writers to work with based on an ‘elevator pitch’ and with absolutely no content???
@E. Thomas
“I have sufficient faith in my concept to have made the decision to commission a first-class illustrator/animator”
This is another thing that points to self-publishing. If a Picture Book writer does not illustrate their own work then it is normally up to the publisher to choose, and pay for, an illustrator; one who’s work will fit the market.
Plus they are “are looking to work with 15 unpublished authors over the next 12 months on an intensive one-to-one basis” so one of the first things you should be running by them is the illustrations.
What happens if the person turns round and says they’re not suitable? What if they ask you to change words, phrases, verses; because it’s too adult, the tone is too preachy, it’s too long?
How much are you prepared to compromise?
@ Imran
Imran Akram wrote: The BWA works with a wide network of organisations from the publishing industry many of whom, including some of the world’s largest publishing houses were represented at the 2010 awards in London on 15 July.
Could you name these people and the houses they work at, please? Are any of them involved in the “intensive one to one support and expertise that the BWA will be buying in from its network of credible partners – with a view to developing each author and his/her book so that a publishing deal can then be brokered between the writer and a reputable publishing house”?
As an unpublished writer, I’m your target market. Nothing you’ve said so far has convinced me that BWA’s initiatives would be of help to me.
@ Bookshop Becky:
I’m wholly with you there, Becky.
I know it was a while back, Jane, but you asked for my impressions of the gala awards. Judges were not automatically given free tickets, but as I had done a great deal of work (unpaid) I blagged a pair for myself and my partner.
From my POV, the evening was wonderful. It was a shame there were no author signings etc (I never knew who they were going to be anyway – I certainly wasn’t asked) but the food was great and the company even better. The evening was very high profile and glitzy, with some very uplifting moments.
I was very aware that the whole experience was a lot less positive for people sitting on the balcony in the £25 seats. That’s a lot to pay for a couple of hours (they had to take their seats at the beginning, I believe) sitting and watching us eat. I later heard they only had access to an expensive bar and no food at all.
But, as I say, my experience of the evening itself was very positive.
Perhaps BWA might spend some funds in hiring staff to answer emails.
Also, in my experience, good luck in trying to recoup funds despite any “money back guarantee” stipulation.
Especially if emails requesting the money are ignored.
Debi wrote:
So, they didn’t pay the ‘high profile’ judges for their time? But at least you had a good party, although you had to ‘ask’ for the freebie.
When I got the email from BWA my first impression was that the guaranteed deal hear would be some kind of vanity publication. Ok they probably wont like it but let’s just call it this taboo name (“self-publishing”) and try and run with it:
Throw in the one-to-one coaching, editing, book design etc and this quickly becomes, at worst, a very cheap self-publication opportunity.
These people happen to have held a writing competition and some people are actually aware of them so another thing they can offer is some publicity, be it through their so called dubious network.
And finally, the clincher, for the dreamers out there, this small area of this scheme that in my opinion these guys have undersold; the video documentary. This was mentioned in their email but the idea that they were going to try and sell this to a network only emerged in Zareen’s reply to one of the posts here. What if they actually sell this diary of 15 desperate writers on their journey to self publication to a network? What if a real agent or publisher actually watched it and identified someone with potential? (I know those of you who are published will disagree, but they don’t read the thousands of submissions they receive every week, so maybe watching would be easier). Or maybe they will just try and rally everyone to snub this TV programme about the taboo route to publication, hence give it publicity that way. If this documentary goes on air and catches on, publishers will want to the books involved regardless of their quality. What I’m trying to say is this people may just be on a winner with this “book x-factor” thing and they probably don’t even know it.
These are dreams and risks but life is full of them, especially for those who haven’t had the breaks yet. I her exchange with the publisher I think the author of this blog, while trying her best to stay controlled and not get drawn into a verbal slugfest, nevertheless hinted that she is already a well established person in this industry. Thus, she is looking at this whole idea from a up, the dreamers are looking from down….
I will stop here because I’m not really sure where I’m going with this. I was reading this blog very late at night and I’m just thinking aloud, I don’t really know whose side I’m on
M wrote:
M, there’s nothing taboo about self-publishing: it’s an excellent way for some writers to proceed. What I object to is vanity publishers masquerading as self-publishing service providers, which happens a lot.
No: at worst it becomes a course taught by people who don’t have the authority or experience to teach what they’re teaching, and a scheme which promises trade publication by a “top publisher” which turns out to offer vanity publication by a new venture. All speculation on my part, of course: but things could be much worse than the route you suggest.
Publicity is of very little use if the product you’re publicising can’t be easily found: so if the resulting books have little or no distribution, this publicity will do very little.
Is the BWA suggesting that it’s going to try to do this? I didn’t get the impression that that was the case, but yes: this could be useful IF they sell it to a major network; but again, if the books are not easily available to the viewing public at the time that the programme is aired, then it will be of limited value for the writers concerned.
Without reading the work they’re not going to be able to do that, though. Watching someone on TV is not quite the same.
You are absolutely wrong. Agents read every single submission that they receive, and respond accordingly. Writers who have been rejected might comfort themselves with the thought that their work wasn’t even read; but the truth is that submissions are read, and rejected if they’re not good enough.
Why would agents do that? It’s a ridiculous suggestion. Agents have a more-than-full-time job serving their existing clients: the success or otherwise of such a TV show (which at the moment exists only in your head) has nothing to do with agents, and scuppering it would use valuable time without offering them any benefit.
Again, you’re making claims that have no basis in logic. For any publicity generated from this potential documentary (which we don’t know is going to go ahead yet) to be at all effective, the books will have to be available on book shop shelves when the documentary is aired: once that has happened it will be too late for a publisher to sign the book, and publish it, and make sales based on the publicity which was generated by the documentary.
Writers make their own breaks by writing good books. If you’ve written a book that just isn’t good enough, then schemes like this are not going to make the Publishing Fairy sprinkle her gold dust on your book, I’m afraid.
I worked as an editor for a while, but I’ve worked as a writer for a whole lot longer. I’ve watched publishing from both sides but mostly, as a writer. Dreams are all very well but the writers who succeed are the ones who put their efforts into improving, rather than dreaming and believing in uninformed rhetoric.
I’m not interested in taking sides: what I object to is seeing writers misled, even if they’re being misled by people with the best of intentions. Which is why I’ve had to respond to your comment so harshly. I’m sorry for that: I hope you’re not upset by my response. I had to point out the problems with your reasoning, so that when others read this thread they’ll be able to appreciate a fuller picture.
Thanks for taking you time to reply, Jane. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate what you are doing. there are so many desperate people out there thinking seriously about parting with nearly £2,000 and they are looking for anything to help them make up their minds. The BWA is at present not providing a lot, and therein lies one of the main weaknesses of this outfit. (Read weakness not as deliberate disregard or misdirection).
BritWriters is relatively new, everything they’ve done is a first and has had, at best, mixed reviews (I’m referring chiefly to their competition). I don’t disagree that these people may well be out there to make money for themselves. So is Simon Cowell, and while many in the music business might turn their noses I don’t think Susan Boyle et al would be complaining.
I entered the much revered Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award (ABNA) and got to the semi-finals. The winner gets a publishing deal from Pengiun with a $15,000 advance, and this is made clear at the outset. I have to admit BWA could learn a lot from them. But I can’t with wholeness of heart say that Amazon weren’t just looking create another fad and cash in. The competition is run by their CreateSpace self-publishing arm. In the earlier rounds their credibility is unquestionable: your work went through their editors, Amazon Vine reviewers and editors from Publishers Weekly respectively in the elimination process of the earlier rounds (don’t worry guys, they made all reviews public so you know they read it). However, when it got to the semi-finals you had to rally supporters to sign up with Amazon and give reviews for your book to improve your chances; I stopped my worrying about this competition at this point. Furthermore, when the competition was over they offered me vouchers to put my work on their platform for free. I kindly declined, but I will use my experience in the competition in my CV. I will use their glowing reviews from earlier rounds. It’s messy out there and it is up to me to sift my wheat and discard the chaff. Everyone is looking after themselves.
The key with this BWA thing is to ask whether there is a small chance these cowboys could drag you along with them if their dubious money making scheme actually works out. (This reality TV thing is hidden somewhere in their announcement by the way, they just didn’t shout loud enough about it in my opinion. It would have got them more applicants but maybe they thought it would harm their credibility with reputable publishers. I don’t think they know what they want to be just yet, they are still young).
I still maintain it’s all about the publicity. Now, with the likes of Amazon and Kindle, making your work available could not be any easier. If it is selling on the internet, someone will want it in their shop.
And, Jane, would you with hand on heart say that a typical literary agent with a modest shop in London and thousands of submissions on his table reads ALL of them? OK I know, I know… you can not vouch for everyone in your business, only the ones you know. But a friend of mine recently submitted extracts from well-known Jane Austen’s work to ten agents. He received the standard responses (your work is not particularly suited for us… etc) from all but one of them who spotted this attempt at plagiarism. One out of ten, Jane! I’m new to this blog and I’m unsure about you target audience. But, you are in danger of alienating the desperate struggling writers, the kind of people you are trying to save from such scam, with claims like that.
M, I’ll only address your final paragraph as otherwise we’re in danger of rehashing what’s already been sent.
Yes, I do believe that all of the good agents (and who would want a bad one?) read every single submission they’re sent: it’s in their interests to do so. Lots of excellent writers come from the slush pile: for example, I believe that Carole Blake found both the best-selling Barbara Erskine and the exceptional Elizabeth Chadwick in her slush piles.
As for your friend with the Jane Austen submission: do you realise how often someone pulls that trick? Most agents will recognise the work for what it is and will realise that they’re either being tested or are dealing with someone so deluded that they really believe they wrote the work in question. If they send anything other than a form rejection they’re likely to get engaged in conversations which aren’t going to earn them anything in terms of reputation or money: why would they therefore send out anything other than a form rejection? I must write a blog post about this, though, as it’s a common occurence and I know a lot of writers misread the situation, as you have.
You say I’m at risk of alienating new writers by stating that agents read all the submissions they receive, and that most of those submissions fail to make the grade: I’m sorry if you find the truth unpleasant. But I’m not going to give you a softer, less honest version of it in order to save your feelings. I recognise these things can be difficult to hear, but that doesn’t mean that I’ll edit the truth to make people visit my blog more often.
I would be very interested in this blog. Maybe my published friend will fish out his agent who told him that the “We accept new writers and don’t charge reading fees” on their shop windows is only there to please the traditional publishers who have made this the norm for an agent to be considered credible. Some of them don’t like doing this because it attracts so many submissions they cant possibly read. What you are telling me is based on where you dwell, those agents around you, and it might be true there. But you have not pointed me to a particular study or investigative research that tested agents in a better way to determine whether they actually read ALL the submissions they receive. Until someone does that I will only believe the one out of ten that my friend came up with. But lets agree to disagree for now. I will keep an eye out for that blog, I’m still learning.
M wrote:
I’ll get to it as soon as I can. Meanwhile, I’ll address the rest of your comment.
M, I’d like to know the name of the agent who told your friend this because it is so completely wrong that I wouldn’t mind betting that your friend has hooked up with an agent who is out to scam him, or who doesn’t have the experience to know how things are really done.
Incidentally, it’s “trade publishing”, not “traditional publishing”; trade publishers have very little to do with agents not charging reading fees, it’s an ethical decision which the better agents are happy to abide by, and it’s backed up by the various agents’ associations which guide the agenting profession.
Nonsense. Really: absolute nonsense. Having read the coments you’ve left here over the last few days you seem to me to be either spectacularly ill-informed, and determined to remain so. You’re convinced that agents don’t read the submissions they receive; why?
What I’m telling you is based on my direct experience. I’ve edited books for UK publishers and US publishers, and have been involved in publishing as a writer and an editor for over 25 years now. In all that time I’ve not come across a reputable agent who works in the way that you describe. I have heard of a few disreputable ones who do, but then who wants to be represented by a disreputable agent?
Similarly, you have not pointed me to any particular study which proves that agents don’t read all the submissions they receive. As I have direct experience which proves to me that they do, I’d like you to provide documented evidence–and by that, I mean a proper study and not anecdotal evidence from your anonymous friends–that they don’t. I bet you can’t.
You’re welcome to believe your friend’s account but remember that he didn’t suggest that agents only read one out of every ten submissions: his story concerned someone who submitted a chunk of Austen’s prose to agents and received nine form rejections. This doesn’t prove that agents only read one in ten submissions: it proves that your friend thought it acceptable to waste the time of ten agents, and then you tried to make their refusal to engage in such a silly prank into something that it wasn’t.
My friend, you have a lot to learn. Do please provide me with studies which back up your allegations because I’d be very interested to read them; if you can’t do that, then please think very carefully before continuing with this conversation. Thank you.
That whole Jane Austen thing is a bit of an urban myth that crops up over and over and is always something somebody’s friend did. Or somebody’s cousin’s neighbour etc. I’ve heard it from many different sources and in many different contexts now. I wouldn’t hold it up as ‘evidence’ of anything really.
Here is a blog post surveying a number of these “send out a classic work of literary fiction as though it were a new piece” experiments, with links to further analyses, and an explanation from a real editor at a real publishing house about why he would send a standard rejection if someone pulled that one on him.
M, I’d suggest reading that post and its linked articles before discussing this further. Although it concerns editors rather than agents, they’re all working in very similar environments. And these are people in the know about the industry, discussing them under their own names or widely known pseudonyms, rather than single initials and accounts of anonymous friends.
Thanks to you all. Like I said I’m still in my early twenties and I’m just a beginner in writing, I’m sure I have no entitlement to argue with any of you. I was merely letting you know that this is a common belief amongst people in my circles (beginners who are struggling to get a break) an that is why we are susceptible to such scams.
M, you turned up here and made various assertions which I and some of my readers then had to refute, so that if anyone else came along after they wouldn’t read your posts and think that that’s how things work in publishing.
There are plenty of places where struggling new writers can find reliable, well-informed information about publishing in a safe environment: I’d suggest you and your friends start with the forums at AbsoluteWrite.com, and perhaps Making Light too (although that’s not quite so helpful for a beginner it does have fabulous discussions which might help you with your debating skills).
Good luck. And please: you’re welcome to join in with all the discussions here: just make sure that in future you don’t be surprised if I point out your mistakes if I think you’re wrong. It might be difficult: but you’ll not learn anything if no one tells you how things really work.
M,
One of the reasons that many of us are so emphatic in contradicting these beliefs is that we’ve seen how badly people get hurt by thinking they’re true.
I’ve corresponded on Making Light with people scammed out of thousands of dollars, money they could not afford to lose, because they thought that the publishing industry was hopelessly corrupt and closed to new authors. I’ve seen them despair because their vanity press has promised what it would not deliver in terms of quality and publicity. And I’ve read altogether too many comments by people giving up writing altogether because they believe that no one will read their work or give it the consideration it deserves.
Puts me right off, it does.
What leaves people open to those despairs starts with the sort of thing you’ve been saying here: I have a mate who says it’s all a cheat. Unverified, untrue, and corrosive stuff.
I’m glad to see you’re taking the opportunity to reconsider. And I’d second Jane’s suggestion of Absolute Write, which is a great repository of real knowledge about publishing, and a delightful community to boot. (Making Light is also a good place, though I’m a moderator there and therefore biased.)
But, you know, the hardest thing on the internet is living with having been wrong. And you’ve done that pretty gracefully, all things considered. It’s all downhill from here.
Thanks again all. In attempting to peddle the horror stories I’ve been exposed to about the publishing industry, I forgot that there may be people like me out there reading this.
I happened upon this blog very late at night after Christmas at a time when I was getting phone calls from BWA congratulating me on “a great achievement” for making their programme, and just waiting for the fees. I knew in my head that this was no achievement. I knew in my head that no one can guarantee you publication in 12months. Yet I still found myself thinking about it. My justification was these people were exploring unknown territories and they might strike gold. I wouldn’t want to think I had a chance to be part of it and I blew it.
I was having great difficulty convincing myself and I was desperately looking for something to help me in the right direction. So I got into this discussion blurting out everything that was on my mind without thinking. I didn’t even know what I was arguing for or against. But I’ve gone over the comments again and some of the material recommended and I think maybe I should change my whole way of thinking and go back to the basics. Because I can now say that this site has indeed saved me £1,795, but maybe some years from I wont be able to put a value to what has been rescued.
The name M should read Michael Oren-James by the way.
Michael,
I’m sorry you’ve suffered a disappointment. I know how difficult that can be.
Here is a guide on how to get published, by a guy who has done it just exactly that way. Making Light, like How Publishing Really Works, is a blog within the writing/editing/agenting/publishing community, and no one is palming any cards about how the economics of the industry works. One can’t lie in the company of other experts.
The heart of the matter is that writing is a craft and a skill, something that improves with practice. If you want to be published, be a good writer. But if you love writing, I’m simply telling you to go do that thing you love. There are worse ways to spend your time.
And from what I can see of your postings here, you’re already head and shoulders above many aspiring writers in your use of language. (Seriously. Read the list at point three here. Teresa is not exaggerating about the quality of some of the things people send into publishers.)
Seriously. You don’t need fairy dust or unexplored territory in an established business. This is a doable thing, and you can do it.
Michael, you’re being very gracious. Thank you.
I think you’ll learn more from spending time at AW and ML than you would from the BWA plan, and AW and ML are both entirely free. I might be wrong: but I hope not. If you do decide to pay out that sort of money on a writing course, you could get yourself half of an MA for £1800.
There are other message boards apart from AW, of course (and in the interests of full disclosure, I’m a moderator there: my user name is Old Hack), but I’m very wary: I’ve read so much unchallenged misinformation at most of them that I can’t recommend them.
Good luck to you: and I hope to see you at AW one of these days.
@ Richard Burton:
Well said, Richard. I’m involved in the Publishing Programme, and the ill-informed babbling above is worrying. It’s good to hear from someone who knows what he’s talking about.
@ Sali Gray:
Hi Sali. I’m on the Publishing Programme too. (There seems to be more than 15). This debate does raise doubts. However, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Logan wrote:
Logan, if you think that anyone here has posted “ill-informed babbling” then please point out the parts you have problems with, and explain how they’re wrong. Because otherwise all you’re doing is name-calling, and I won’t have that here. You’re welcome to debate as much as you like, so long as you are courteous and respectful: but if you resort to name-calling again I’ll edit or delete your comments however I see fit.
Logan wrote:
There seem to be more than the promised 15 writers on this new program but you’re not concerned by that; you agree that this debate raises doubts; but you’re going ahead anyway.
There’s a big difference between taking a risk when you’ve done your research, know what’s at stake and are prepared to lose; and jumping into a river without knowing how shallow it might be, or what swims beneath its surface. Do take care.
@ Jane Smith:
Hello Jane
About the 15: I replied very quicky to BWA (I might have been the first to do so). I sent a synopsis, and told them my book was complete and I’d entered it in the Terry Pratchett competition. They said they liked my idea and were keen, but before my final acceptence I had to agree to certin things (payment, commitment etc). Also, they wanted to see my complete manuscript. Unfortunately, next day I left home on a transatlantic cruise (unfortunately?) with my laptop. While at sea I could communicate with BWA by wi-fi on the ship’s computer, but I could not transfer a copy of my work because the ship’s computer wouldn’t take a memory stick. BWA told me, sorry, but I’d missed the deadline for that round of judging. However, when I got home from holiday, I received a call from BWA. They said they were enthusiastic about my book and still wanted me on board. My name isn’t on the web site with the fifteen because they were announced before my return. I think BWA found itself with at least one, maybe more, manuscript over and above the fifteen that it thought unfair to exclude.
Sorry for the ill-informed babbling comment. I wasn’t calling any one names. Much of it is ill-informed, however. You could also use the word cynical. I thought I was the most cynical person in the multiverse, but maybe I’m not. Sometimes, you need to trust people. I’ve made a judgement about BWA. It doesn’t bother me that they have a self-publishind project. Like others, I was offered that route, but I wasn’t interested. Self-publishing does have its place: academic books, for example. The way I look at it, my money is paying for exactly what BWA says it is paying for. If I was to pay for a book doctor, the price would be much greater.
If I could just say something about the guarantee issue, since some people seem to misunderstand … a guarantee must be a gaurantee of something, in two parts like a scientific theory “if … then)’. The BWA gaurantee is then presented as “If your book isn’t published by December 2012, then you’ll get your money back”. That seems fair to me. People who are cynical about the Publishing Programme seem to forget about the money back part of it.
@ Jane Smith:
Yes. I’m jumping in, and there’s an element of risk. I’ve been writing for twenty-five years and have never taken a risk before, not even a baby one. If my book doesn’t get published by Dec 2012, and I get my money back, I’ve lost nothing. It’s worth a shot because, at bottom, Brit Writers wants to succeed as much as (maybe more than) I do. And to succeed, any company needs successful products: it’s writers.
Logan, so sorry–your comments were held for moderation and I’ve only just noticed, which is why they’ve only just appeared.
Logan wrote:
Logan, you might not realise you were calling anyone names but you DID. And as I’ve asked before, instead of just SAYING that things are ill-informed, please explain what and why. Thanks.
I can see that there’s a money-back guarantee: what’s missing is information about how the books concerned might be published. The only way the BWA can guarantee their publication is to engage the services of a vanity publisher; and as there’s no definition of what sort of publishing qualifies, that money-back guarantee is pretty meaningless.
As the BWA is making money off those writers, though, all it needs to succeed is for writers to carry on paying it. If they get published, but get so badly published that those books fail to sell, the BWA loses nothing and the writers have paid a lot of money for something of little value.
Logan, all of this has already been discussed in some detail in this thread. You might like to read up on this a bit before you post again, so that we don’t have to keep repeating ourselves. Thanks.
@ Jane Smith:
Well, to be honest, Jane, since concerns about BWA are speculative (perhaps because BWA has not been asked for answers to specific questions) most of it is ill-informed. To be fully informed you need to know both sides of the story. I have asked specific questions. One, for example, is: how come there are 15 on the one year publishing programme but I seem to be number 16? I now know the answer, and I’m happy with it. I won’t reveal it here because I believe BWA are soon to address some concerns people have and they might explain it then.
\Logan, all of this has already been discussed in some detail in this thread. You might like to read up on this a bit before you post again, so that we don’t have to keep repeating ourselves\
Since the debate seems be closed now, I’ll bow out by saying that I have no complaints about the BWA so far. My main concern is that it may be trying to do too much too quickly.
Thanks for having me.
“Logan, you might not realise you were calling anyone names but you DID. And as I’ve asked before, instead of just SAYING that things are ill-informed, please explain what and why”
I really don’t want to debate what counts as name calling. Being fully informed requires knowing both sides of an issue. Speculation is often the outcome of being ill-informed. Much of what I read above (I don’t want to pick throught it all again) about the BWA is speculative.
“as there’s no definition of what sort of publishing qualifies, that money-back guarantee is pretty meaningless”
If my book were to be published by the same company that published Catherine Cooper’s (Hello Catherine! Congratulations!) I’d be pleased. Most would-be novelists would be pleased. It’s not quite beggars can’t be chosers, but writers should be grateful for the opportunity BWA is providing (in my opinion) and not so cynical that they miss their chance. Granted, they have to invest some of their money to grasp that chance.
… Must dash. I’m late.
Logan wrote:
Logan, you’re just not getting this, are you? You’re welcome to say that comments here are ill-informed if you point to the specific comments you find troubling and explain how they’ve got it wrong: but as you’re clearly not prepared to do that, STOP SAYING IT.
Not necessarily: if you have expertise in a particular area then you’re qualified to point out flaws in others’ arguments, which is what I, and a few others, have done here.
You don’t have to explain it here, Logan, because you already explained it upstream. Had you forgotten?
Logan, the debate isn’t closed: I was simply pointing out that you didn’t seem to have read much of the conversation here, and that if you want to take part you might find it useful to do so.
And you’re welcome.
Hang on, Logan, didn’t you just say that you were bowing out? And yet here you are again. Hmmm.
Logan wrote:
It’s not your choice: this is my blog, and so here you play by my rules. I consider your behaviour name-calling: that’s all you need to know.
I went through this before; you’re wrong; and I think you’re nitpicking in order to avoid justifying your “ill-informed” thing.
This interests me. Without wishing to be snarky, what’s so good about Catherine’s publisher? Why do you think it’s such a great choice for you and your book? What makes it better than one of the big boys, or one of the already-established independent presses?
It’s not a case of being cynical, though, Logan: it’s important for everyone to understand fully what they’re getting into before they sign up, whether they’re signing a publishing deal or a phone contract or anything else; and to not just accept what the person providing the service tells them without carrying out a few basic background checks first.
Yog’s Law, Logan. Yog’s Law.
@ Jane Smith:
“You don’t have to explain it here, Logan, because you already explained it upstream. Had you forgotten?”
No. I said “I think”. Actually, there’s more too it. All shall be revealed, but it’s not my place to do the revealing.
“Not necessarily: if you have expertise in a particular area then you’re qualified to point out flaws in others’ arguments”
That’s not the same thing as being fully informed. The “flaws” you mention may simply be misunderstandings, speculations or whatever, that arise from not being fully informed. Flaws in argumentation are matters of logic, like when clause two is logically impossible given clause one: the dog was sick, therefore it will rain on Tuesday … that kind of thing. If I say, some people have concerns about the BWA, that statement is true. If I say, some people are ill informed about the BWA, that statement is true also.
“Hang on, Logan, didn’t you just say that you were bowing out? And yet here you are again. Hmmm.”
Yes. Sorry about that. I actually wrote what came afterwards first, but had trouble with the “submit comment” thing and thought it hadn’t gone through. But it had. As we now know. So there!
) Hence, the need to be fully informed before rushing to judgement.
“It’s not your choice: this is my blog, and so here you play by my rules. I consider your behaviour name-calling: that’s all you need to know.”
Ha! I might be in love with you!
“what’s so good about Catherine’s publisher?”
It published her book and got her a five figure deal. I know what you’re saying. It would be great if all us would-be novelists could have the very best agents and the tip top publisher and the biggest advance. However, as I think you’ll agree, the real world isn’t like that. When I started out, I was delighted (over the moon) to get my first short story accepted by a magazine stapled at the sides with payment of two free copies.
“Yog’s Law, Logan. Yog’s Law”
My wife was calling me. “We’re late for the gym! I’ll miss kick-boxing!” She does kick-boxing, not me. I pretend to be lifting weights … very light ones. Thanks for the chat, Jane.
Hi Jane
Just read this post and skim-read the discussion. I heard the other day (not checked it, though) that Writers’ News have withdrawn their support for BWA for 2011. That says a lot, in my opinion.
Kath, I’ve heard the same; and I believe that another company has also withdrawn its support of the scheme. I wish they’d share their views here, but realise it’s probably a sensitive subject for them.
Logan, I’m sorry–your comments seem to be getting stuck in my spam-queue, and so they’re delayed.
Logan wrote:
I see your point here: but you’ve repeatedly missed mine.
I don’t need to know the exact chemical formula behind a new brand of snake oil to know that it’s more likely to burn my skin off than to cure my athlete’s foot.
So you should be. I am infinitely loveable and quite remarkably gorgeous.
Logan, I understand that desperation to be published: but it does not serve you, or any other writer, well. It’s far better to remain unpublished than to be published badly, for all sorts of reasons.
Hi Jane, and everyone. Usual constructive discussion here!
Just to confirm, Writers’ News and Writing Magazine have ended our involvement with Brit Writers as a whole.
New national competition with a big prize, aimed at grassroots writers – good thing.
Evolving said competition into a paid scheme with no transparency (to writers or anyone else) and woolly guarantees – not so much.
I think all the previous posts pretty much explain why, so I don’t need to recap all that. You wouldn’t enter a competition that trumpeted “guaranteed prizes”, without telling you what the prizes actually were, would you?
At the risk of rekindling things:
Logan wrote:
Her prize was £10,000. Publication was a debatable bonus. That shouldn’t be confused with an actual publishing deal, which would obviously have been on top of the prize. Unless I’m missing something.
@ Jonathan – Writers’ News:
I don’t think you’re missing anything, Jonathan. I said it published her book and got her a five figure deal. This sentence, so far as I’m aware, is factually accurate.
Hello to all
This is to confirm to Jonathan and anyone else who might be following this discussion, the statement Logan made was correct.
I won a prize of £10,000 and the publishing deal was on top of the prize. My publishing contract is with Infinite Ideas.
Regarding the ‘five figure deal’, I’ve pasted in the official press release.
Infinite Ideas is delighted to announce a substantial five-figure, two-book Portuguese language deal with Brazilian publishing giant Editora Bertrand Brasil. Bertrand will publish BWA 2010 winner Catherine Cooper‟s The Golden Acorn and sequel, Glasruhen Gate, in 2011. Editora Bertrand is part of Grupo Editorial Record which has 14 imprints. The Group was established in 1953 and published authors such as Simone de Beauvoir and Jean-Paul Sartre. Bertrand now publishes best-selling authors Barbara Taylor Bradford, Nora Roberts and Peter Ackroyd, as well as children’s books by Eoin Colfer, Charlie Higson, Anthony Horowitz, Dick King-Smith, Philip Pullman and Louis Sachar to name but a few.
Hope this answers any queries.
Kind regards to all
Catherine Cooper
I think the most recent anonymous poster was Logan, by the way.
Catherine, thanks for stopping by once more. To clarify, is this what happened?
1) You won the BWA top prize and were paid £10k as part of that prize.
2) You were also given a publishing deal with Infinite Ideas, which involved no further advance and a non-negotiable contract.
3) Rights to your book have since sold to Editora Bertrand Brasil for a second five-figure sum, but that’s a two-book deal, not just for your prizewinning book.
I’m interested to know who made that Brazillian sale for you, and how much of the five-figure sum you’ll end up getting. Sorry, I’m nosy. Did Infinite Ideas do the deal on your behalf, or was it the BWA, or did you do it yourself? And if someone other than you did the deal, what percentage of the advance and royalties do they take?
Hello Jane
Infinite Ideas took The Golden Acorn to the Frankfurt Book Fayre in October and I can confirm the deal with Editora Bertrand Brasil is for two books – the prizewinning book and the sequel, entitled Glasruhen Gate – The Adventures of Jack Brenin Book Two.
However, you’d need to ask the people at Infinite Ideas for the answers to all your other questions. I can’t answer for them or the BWA.
Catherine, thanks for clarifying yet again. You’re being very patient, and far more gracious than most. So, Infinite Ideas made the two-book deal on your behalf; have you therefore sold all rights to them, rather than just UK print rights?
Your publishing contract should specify what rights they now have, and also what share of the monies raised by further rights sales will go to Infinite Ideas. An agent would take 15-20% (depending on territory, etc); it’s common for publishers to keep around 50% of rights sales that they make, but I’ve heard of unagented writers signing contracts which give 80% of rights sales to their publishers, which doesn’t seem fair to me at all. Not that I have reason to believe that that’s what’s happened here, but I just thought I’d mention it.
What I am curious about is that this is a two-book deal: I thought you’d only signed with Infinite Ideas for one book. If so, do they have the rights to sell that second book or was this another surprise?
@ Sali Gray:
Having read through a lot of these comments on the BWA. Am pleased to see for’s and against’s to balance things out a little.
I look forward to hearing who of these 15 chosen writers get published. I also look forward to seeing their books in shops as promised.
But I suspect they will be ‘order on line only’s’ but that won’t matter.
I FORMALLY PUT A REQUEST OUT TO ALL YOU 15 CHOSEN WRITERS TO INFORM US OF YOUR PUBLISH DATES BY THE END OF THE YEAR, AND THE NAMES OF YOUR PUBLISHED BOOKS AND WHERE WE CAN GET HOLD OF THEM.
This for me will entice me to look more closely at BWA and take them seriously.
(I’m simply looking to see them make good their word and prove themselves capable)
Giving them a chance.
But I do feel compelled to ask what justifies the price? Is that a standard or inflated or ‘small’ price?
What does your money pay for?
Me again
In reply to your comment…
‘I thought you’d only signed with Infinite Ideas for one book.’
They obviously liked my books… the original contract was for one book but subsequently I signed for the whole Jack Brenin series. This contract was signed before Frankfurt. I’m working on book three at the moment…. or should have been but got distracted tonight!
Both my contracts were looked at, by the Society of Authors, whose judgement I trust. I’ve been very grateful for the help and advice they’ve given me.
Thanks for all the facts and figures.
@ Jane Smith:
“I think the most recent anonymous poster was Logan, by the way”
I read this and thought: what? Who? Me? Where? When? But … Yes, it was me. Forgot to put my name, sorry.
@ Nibs:
This for me will entice me to look more closely at BWA and take them seriously.
(I’m simply looking to see them make good their word and prove themselves capable)
Giving them a chance.
But I do feel compelled to ask what justifies the price? Is that a standard or inflated or ‘small’ price?
What does your money pay for?
Hello Nibs
I’m involved in the BW publishing programme. I’ve found BW to be sincere. They do seem to make tweaks and adjustments as they go along (in the name of improving what they do), which makes me think they should slow down somewhat. I hope moving too fast (programme for schools, workshops, competitions, self publishing, publishing programme) doesn’t trip them up.
As for the cost: Mainly, BW provides a mentor (book doctor, I suppose). True, I don’t know if my mentor will be any use. I did a writing course with Writers’ News many years ago and my tutor/mentor was rubbish. It’s a matter of trust, really.
They way I look at it, it’s in the best interests of BW to get me the best publisher possible. If my finished book is brilliant, there’s a chance that BW might get me a top publisher. If my finished book is ****, then BW might have trouble finding someone with a toilet roll and some staples. In other words, as I’m doing my best, it’s up to BW (for the sake of their own success and reputation) to do their/its best for me.
Here’s a story that you might or might not find interesting … Five years ago I was in an airport book shop. There was a man in a white suit. That, I thought, is either somebody from Randal and Hopkirk Deceased, or God. He approached me and asked something like, was I a reader (No. I’m browsing in a bookshop because I want to buy a motorbike). Anyway, it so happened that he was there pushing two of his books, one of which I was polite enough to buy. In the course of our conversation, I asked: what’s the best advice you would give a would-be novelist like me? He said: if you can afford it, pay a book doctor (don’t think he used that exact term) to help get your book into shape for presentation to a publisher. So I looked up book doctors on the internet and discovered that they charge an arm and at least three legs. No way.
The BW publishing programme, which includes a mentor (who also acts as your agent) is a fraction of the cost of any book doctor I’ve heard of. Now, questions arise concerning the quality of the service provided. It’s right that people should ask questions. Asking questions is on thing, but pre-judging is quite another; the programme hasn’t even started yet. You mentioned giving them a chance, and I fully agree with that.
)
@ Catherine Cooper:
Hello Catherine
I have to say that I’m delighted for you. And, yes, I’m envious too. If I were you, I wouldn’t allow internet sites (excellent though this one is, Jane) to distract me from enjoying my success. Onward! Today: England, Brazil and Portugal. Tomorrow … Wales?
)
Thanks very much for clarifying, Catherine – my mistake – and for your patience. I’d just like to add that my feelings about BWA in no way reflect badly upon your win, or your book.
Logan wrote:
Thank you for the compliment, Logan. And I agree with you completely: my concerns in writing this article were about the BWA; it wasn’t my intention to undermine Catherine’s success one bit, and I hope I’ve not spoiled anything for her.
I am so very impressed with the way that Catherine has carried herself here: she’s dignified, gracious and generous, and there are many very experienced and successful writers who could learn a lot from her.
I’d like to say thank you to Jane, Jonathan and Logan for your comments and kind words.
I stumbled on this site by accident and found the debate illuminating.
I can’t comment on the current BWA publishing programme, but as a Judge for the 2010 awards, I want to say a couple of things, really for the sake of future entrants.
I’d like to be generous and say that as a new award scheme BWA was bound to have teething problems. However, so many things made me uneasy as a judge, and I became seriously concerned for the entrants.
Firstly there was the ever-changing deadline. We were supposed to begin marking entries by end of Feb, in fact the entries didn’t appear until late June, during which time email contact and information on what was going on was non-existent. With only four weeks to go before the final announcements, and 21,000 entries to mark online, you can imagine the judging process was manic. In fact the deadline had to be extended a further week as there were so many entries clogging the system. That week wasn’t enough. I read and judged my last short story (adult) knowing that there were entries still to be read, and no time to read them.
Who read those final stories? And how many were there left over? I can’t say for sure. I suspect quite a few. One of them may have been the next Shakespeare.
It doesn’t surprise me that so many entrants were told they’d been short-listed. That would certainly help ticket sales for the Gala Awards Ceremony. A glitzy affair, no doubt. I wasn’t there, having decided not to take up my free seat. (There’s a story there, but life is too short to tell it.)
I will just add that I had then to wait many months for payment of the promised fee. Why was this? Well, I was told the costs of the Ceremony had escalated beyond expectation. The Judges would have to wait.
There are some winners of course, and my congratulations to Catherine Cooper, (a fellow Shropshire author – hallo Catherine!) that said, clearly many people have been misled, and possibly many good stories lost in the process.
Hi Susie
Due to my lack of interest in this subject I was about to leave this email string for good until I read your addition. Thanks for writing it.
I’ve been hearing along the grapevine of background issues with this company but you appear to be of first hand knowledge.
I’d like to be cheeky and ask about the story behind you not taking your free seat? Especially as others are said to have paid £60? But it’s ok if you don’t want to divulge on this public page.
It sounds very naughty of BWA to not have made more of an effort to get all the entrants stories read and judged. And very unprofessional. Did they simply not realise how many entrants they would get and therefor didn’t allow enough time and employ enough judges etc? Did things, I.T. software for example let them down?
And the fact that you, as a judge, didn’t get paid for months just rings another alarm bell.
Or
was it all simply down to poor management, judgement, lack of experience and knowledge in this field.
I dare say that as long as they keep running competitions, people will enter them. But I do think they need learn by this and at the very least let people know that their entry stories may not get read next time around.
I would be very upset if I’d entered and found my story hadn’t even been read. Especially if I’d been given the impression, EVERY ENTRY would be read.
I’ve certainly learned a valuable lesson from this email string.
)
Nibs
Susie, thank you for your response here.
For the record, you’re not the first judge to tell me that because of delays on the BWA’s part they didn’t have sufficient time to read all of the entries.
Susie – you were paid??? My experiences as a judge were very similar to yours except for that one aspect. I would love to discuss this further with you.
Having met Catherine at the awards do, I can confirm that she is really is as lovely as she appears to be here. I’m so delighted that she has had positive outcomes from her win.
Debi – You weren’t paid at all? Nothing? That’s outrageous. What are you doing about it?
In my view the payment for Judges should have been set aside before the ceremony took place. Is Terry Pratchett still waiting for his money? I doubt it.
How did I get paid? I’m afraid I had to resort to underhand tactics. I claimed that I knew a large number of Judges who were still waiting for payment, (I didn’t know any of the judges incidentally), and that my journalist daughter who sometimes writes for the Telegraph might be very interested in the story.
I know. That was pretty low of me. Not my usual style I assure you. But it worked!
Re. the free seat, I thought all the judges were offered the free ticket. Originally it was to have been partners invited. We were even asked about our dietry requirements. Then came the news that the free lunch/dinner was off, sorry.
By this time the vibes were so bad, it hardly seemed worth forking out on the Posh Frock and train fare to London etc..
But I’m glad you had a good time at the event, and got to meet Catherine.
To ans. Nibs comments,I don’t think we can just put this down to poor management and inexperience. Someone is making a lot of money out of this, and clearly it’s not the people who do all the work.
@ Debi:
Jane you didnt get permission to use those quotes here and considering all you’ve said about plagairism you’ve got a right nerve. You should be ashamed of yourself. All you do is cause trouble wherever you go and you really should learn to shut up. Your opinion isn’t wanted anywhere. Look at all the harm you did to youwriteon, you nearly closed it down with your spite and nasty comments and now your trying to do the same with the BWA. Well you wont succeed. Stop telling everyone else what to do and start being a bit nicer to people and then you might end up getting something of your own published. What a laugh you are.
I was among several of our staff judging for the first BWA Awards, and, like Susie, had doubts about the process.
In the supposed third round, entries which were above or below the word counts were still present (amongst other ineligible entries) suggesting that there either was no first or second round, or they were not competently handled.
Each entry was supposed to be seen by three judges in the final round, but there were no guidelines for how many entries each judge needed to read, just “Do as many as you can”.
Since the entries were also marked on a numerical system, I also lobbied for a “benchmark entry” to be assessed by all judges (since a lenient judge and a strict judge would give different numerical marks, and it’s not unthinkable that three judges, if three did indeed see each entry, could all be lenient ones), but this was interpreted by BWA as some kind of literary snobbery. It was promised that the procedure would improve for this year, but I will have no inside information this time.
Dear Anonymous.
You are entitled to spout as much nonsense as you like but not ad hominem attacks on Jane. It speaks volumes to me that you are not prepared to divulge your identity.
And Jane’s quotes? She only quotes (on her blog) those who have freely and willingly posted their comments (on her blog. Which she owns. Where’s the plagiarism? Are you sure you know what plagiarism actually means?
You make some pretty strong accusations. ‘Are you prepared to back them up with facts? I have seen no spite or nastiness from Jane. And what about the comments posted here by two judges of the competition. Any opinions on those? Are they spiteful and nasty, too?
Jonathan – were you guys paid? This plot is thickening.
As for those anonymous comments – pah. I’m sure as soon as Jane sees them she will deal with them in her usual inimitable style.
Anonymous: I’d really appreciate it if you’d give your name next time; it would give you a bit of credibility which right now, you lack. Judging by the various things you refer to I’d guess that you submitted your book to YouWriteOn’s disastrous publishing scheme; and that you’re a disgruntled member of Writers News Talkback who hasn’t kept up to date with my posts here. You really should read this, and then you can come back here and apologise; but I won’t hold my breath.
Poopyhead.
Moving on: Susie, Debi and Jonathan, you’re not the only judges who have told me those things; but you’re the only ones who have said so openly here. Thank you. It’s important to get these things out in the open to prevent others getting entangled next time, and to help BWA to improve its services in the future.
Sally, thank you for your kind words. You’re a very good friend to have, and I don’t deserve you.
What a fascinating (and long-running!) thread this is. I agree that anonymous name-calling is totally uncalled for. Thanks for hosting such an important blog article Jane, you may save some people being ‘fleeced by cowboys’. Certainly you provide many with sensible information about writing and publishing, thank you.
Anyway what I was wondering, did I miss seeing it, did BWA ever say who it was that was to publish the 15s (or 16?) books?
@ :
Gulp! I’d like to say that I forgot to put my name once and was ANannyMouse, but this particular NannyMouse really, really wasn’t me. I don’t even know about YouWriteOn. There are good ways and bad ways to put your point across. This wasn’t one of the better ways.
@ Nicola Ford:
@ Nicola Ford:
Anyway what I was wondering, did I miss seeing it, did BWA ever say who it was that was to publish the 15s (or 16?) books?
Hello Nicola.
It’s not possible to say in advance who the publishers will be. I imagine it depends on genre, how good or bad the book is etc. Some books probably won’t get published, in which case the money back deal come into play.
Ahhh right. You know when they say if a thing sounds too good to be true then it is…well that’s how this sounds. If it was as simple as paying £1800 (or whatever BWA are asking) to be published then we’d all do it.
Logan, don’t worry: this latest Anon is clearly not you. The level of literacy (or lack of it) on display is a great big clue.
And no, there’s no suggestion yet who will publish the books of the Lucky 15 or 16. It strikes me that the only publishers they can be certain of attracting are ones which might not bear too much scrutiny. But then I’m notoriously cynical.
I wish all the best to Catherine Cooper who thoroughly deserved her win. However I would like to say that as a finalist in one of the categories in the Brit Writers Unpublished Awards I felt more could be done to help some of the other finalists. I think that the competition had very good intentions and I was so chuffed to make the final. However that was it and I feel that if the ethos was to help up and coming writers to break down the publishing doors then they could have spared a little more help to some of the other finalists who may not have won but if there were thousands of entries had done extremely well.
regarding the profit from the entries. I have to point out that last year you could enter as many things as you liked for a one off fee. I know lots of people who entered a few so the amount they made from entries is debatable.
Many of us sent feedback to them but they didn’t appear to take it on board. and it was confusing to be told you had things through and not know which entry. However I do hope that they will improve and the competition grew from strength to strength.
Jane,
I take my hat off to you.
You have certainly put a lot of energy into this blog and have skilfully managed to elicit information from all of the relevant angles (albeit with the help of a few nose-tweeks).
I’d be interested to know if you have been won over at all, following the 160-odd comments so far, or have your previous suspicions of BWA been confirmed, along with your fears for the 15 writers on the mentor scheme?
cheerio
Ron, I specialise in nose-tweaking.
How have I reacted to the comments in this thread? Well, first and foremost I’ve felt immensely grateful to Catherine Cooper for responding with such grace and elegance to what must have been a very difficult discussion for her. The woman is a star.
As for my views about the BWA: everything I’ve seen has only strengthened my views that this is something that I really don’t want to get involved with. In addition to the numerous comments on this thread I’ve received a whole pile of emails from people who are involved with the award, which have all been rude, aggressive, or downright insulting. One came from the BWA itself: I didn’t respond as I prefer to conduct such discussions in public, where everyone can take part.
However, what’s really important for the writers concerned isn’t what I think or what you think: it’s how this will help forward their careers, and how prestigious other publishing professionals consider this award to be. I’ve asked a few of those publishing professionals what they think of the BWA and without exception, they’ve not even been aware of it. There you go.
Jane,
Rest-assured, I am full of admiration for your nose-tweaking prowess (and have been making notes).
I can appreciate that you are simply trying to get to the truth. The BWA only have themselves to blame for being so mysterious about the whole thing. And although you have done some sterling work, that air of mystery persists to some degree.
It is encouraging to note that those involved in the BWA schemes, such as Mrs Cooper and Eiry, seem perfectly happy. As an unpublished writer myself, that is persuasive, especially as the route via the mainstream publishing industry does not seem entirely satisfactory (although I’d like to add that I am no longer of the opinion that all publishers are money-making goons).
But despite the fabulous discussion that has been had here, thanks largely to your extraordinary tenacity, it is a shame there has not been a significant coming-together of opinions, which would have made it easier for people like myself to decide on a course of action.
So what should new writers do? Personally, I will be following the BWA activities with interest and hope they can produce a plausible alternative route to successful publication. But as it stands, on balance, owing to the lack of clarity offered by the BWA, I would probably still focus on the traditional route.
ron blanco wrote:
Ron, you need to aim for more topspin.
There’s no mystery for me. The BWA was disorganised, has potentially misled writers (that Gordon Brown endorsement, for example), has dragged its heels in paying judges (while not paying others). I could go on but you get the picture.
But that’s the whole point, Ron. I’m glad that Ms Cooper and Eiry seem happy: but without meaning to patronise them they’re both still in the honeymoon phase. Have you seen Ms Cooper’s book anywhere? It was published months ago and yet I’ve not seen it in any of the bookshops I’ve been to (and yes, I have been looking). With 65% or so of book sales still being made in physical book shops, and about half of the remaining 35% being made online after book shop selection, that’s a big problem.
There rarely is a coming-together of opinions in discussions like this. It seems to me that just about everyone who has real publishing experience is wary of the BWA.
New writers could write a very good book, and submit it to the right publishers and agents. It’s a system that’s worked well for years, and is still doing ok.
Jane,
I’ve not quite worked out the quote tool yet, but you said:
“Have you seen Ms Cooper’s book anywhere”
Ms Cooper seems to have done well financially. Having said that, I am curious about the five figure deal. If the first of those five figures is a 9 then that seems very impressive to me. Even if it is only a 1, it is still not to be sniffed at. It seems rude to ask though.
And you said this:
“There rarely is a coming-together of opinions in discussions like this.”
Why is that, do you think? And if that’s true, what’s the point of the discussion in the first place?
And you said this:
“It’s a system that’s worked well for years, and is still doing ok”
But worked well for whom? Do you think that the evangelical support for the BWA initiatives is fuelled by an increasing disillusionment of authors with the old-fashioned system.
Jane,
Without being contentious, I would very much appreciate it if further discussions about the subject matter could continue without referencing me individually. It’s been my choice to blog very little and having made my choice, I’m sticking with it. I continue to believe that this site and others will treat the BWA and those of us on the programme fairly, given time.
Hi Jane,
I am a member of the BWA Publishing scheme and have been following this thread with interest. With your permission, I am posting a link here to my own blog relaying my experience thus far in attempting to get published, which—even with reputable agent(s) representation—I have failed to do. I have also outlined my experience with, and thoughts on, the BWA, which might be of interest to some, particularly Ron.
Here is the link:
Thanks, Jane. I hope it throws and inside light on things. I do intend to post up with regular progress reports as things proceed.
Regards.
Oops, I’ll try again. Apologies.
Leanne Meredith Blogspot
Obviously not that technically savvy!
ron blanco wrote:
To be blunt: in my experience, when people who are desperate to be published are told that publishing works in a certain way by people who have promised to help them be published, they are eager to believe what they hear.
When someone else comes along and starts pointing out the problems in the things they’ve been told, they are very unlikely to take that well.
Especially when they’re told that the real problem lies with their writing or their approach to writing and submitting, rather than with that big old nasty publishing business and its petty, dinosaur-like gatekeepers.
No, I think it’s fuelled by writers not really knowing how publishing works; by a lack of understanding of logic and fallacy; and by a desperation to be published.
Eiry Thomas wrote:
Eiry, you can’t tell people what they can and can’t talk about on my blog: that isn’t appropriate. I am certainly not going to forbid anyone to discuss things here, so long as they’re not being libellous or rude.
Your implication is that I’ve not discussed the BWA fairly so far but will, given time. Frankly, I resent that. If you think I’ve been unfair, or if anyone else who has commented here has been, then say so and say why: otherwise, please don’t suggest that it’s not the case.
Leanne, I could tidy up those comments for you but I’d rather not: I really don’t like to delete comments, as I don’t like to edit what people say. I hope you don’t mind.
I’ve read some of your blog and I see a writer who is a lot like me. I’ve written three and a half novels or so now, and was promised an auction on the first two of them–which both went on to not even get a single offer.
Yes, I have my desperate moments, but thanks to my experience on the other side of the publishing fence I understand why that happened; and because of the years I’ve spent investigating what happens when writers try short-cuts or believe the “publishing is broken” hype, I’m not tempted by the Brave New World schemes either. Yes, that means that I remain unpublished (on the fiction side of things, at least); but I value my writing and I’d rather not be published at all than be published badly.
We all have to make our own choices, and for several reasons the BWA doesn’t feature in mine.
OK Jane. Here’s my last post. I really don’t wish to be misunderstood.
Regarding your first highlighted response: My reference was to do with the fact that my name had been brought in to the discussion from an outside source. I made no mention at all of what can or can not be discussed. I had not used my Christian name on your blog before and, as such, I felt that it infringed the rules. If that isn’t the case, then I don’t understand blogging at all and it saddens me.
Regarding the second point highlighted, I merely outlined my faith in the fact that blogging, in general, looks at negatives and positives, from which emerges a fair and balanced opinion and that it’s early days at the moment regarding the subject matter at hand. You misunderstood me there Jane. There were no surreptitious implications at all, and that you should think so also saddens me. This blogging business is obviously incompatible with my suppositions and my nature. No doubt you’ll agree with me there.
So, Jane, you’re an unpublished writer telling others how publishing really works?
And you’d rather remain unpublished than be “published badly”? Sounds like sour grapes.
As far as I can see, this blog is to generate as much search engine traffic as possible to sell stuff through your store.
Fumuli, I’m not unpublished. I’ve had over 20 books published; just that most of them are non-fiction and none of them are novels, which is why I rarely give writing advice and focus here on the mechanics of publishing. I do know a little bit about that, having worked in publishing since the early 1980s.
Sour grapes? I don’t think so. If you think otherwise, that’s up to you: but if this whole blogging exercise were intended to drive traffic to my store I’d be a miserable failure. Because I don’t have a store. I do, however, have an Amazon Associates account and in the two and a half years since I’ve been blogging, I’ve earned just under £53 from it. I could earn more than that having a single letter published in an appropriate magazine.
I’d still rather not be published at all than be published badly. What about you? How many books have you had published? Who were the publishers? And what was the result?
Eiry Thomas wrote:
Eiry, let me clarify: so long as people don’t use my blog to libel anyone, or infringe copyright, and they remain respectful, I don’t think it’s at all inappropriate to discuss others here.
Have you posted here before but used another name? I wasn’t aware of that. It would be helpful if you’d stick to just the one name so that readers don’t get confused.
And you have no need to be sad: no one’s written anything nasty or untrue about you here, and if you feel otherwise just let me know what you object to and I’ll deal with it.
I agree that it’s early days for the BWA course: but I’ve seen many other similar or related schemes over the years and there’s a pattern to them, and various red flags which are common to them all. If you don’t believe me, look out Victoria Strauss’s blog for Writer Beware, for example; or the Bewares and Background Checks section of the AbsoluteWrite forums. We don’t have to wait and see how the BWA scheme pans out to know that it’s very similar to all those others, and therefore what the likely outcome is.
I can’t agree with you there because I don’t know you, or your nature. What I do know is that you did imply those things in your comment; whether you intended them to be there or not is another matter.
As writers we have to do our best to ensure that we communicate as effectively as we can, and that we own our own words and make sure that they mean exactly what we intend them to mean. It’s an important point.
Like Jane, I would rather not be published at all than published badly. I really don’t see how this honest confession can be called ‘sour grapes’.
I’ve had three novels published by a major publisher. Despite major bookshop promotions, signings and schmoozings and all the rest, the books didn’t sell in their millions. Next thing I know I’m dumped and off the Christmas party list. I’m far from alone. Sadly, this is a fact of life for so many of my novelist friends.
Publication is only the beginning. You then have to worry about getting into major bookshops, (ie. Waterstones) and staying on the shelves long enough for customers to read the titles.
If it’s this hard for a mainstream published author, the likes of Britwriters have quite a challenge before them.
I could have spent the rest of my life fighting to get book 4 and 5 out there with anyone who would take me. I could have self published, or paid for some get-published-quick scheme.
Instead, I’ve moved to the other side of the fence, and now edit and shape manuscripts for submission.
Having read Leanne’s blog, I sympathize. In her position I would probably have seen the BWA publishing offer as a lifeline as well.
However, I confess these noble aspirations to help new writers make me slightly nauseous. How can anyone have faith in an organization who can’t even pay, and apparently have no interest in paying their mcuh lauded, ‘high profile’ Judges of the previous year.
Such behaviour is clearly unprofessional and does not bode well for those people on the programme. I hope they will prove me wrong.
@ Susie:
Susie – hear, hear. Wise and measured words. I too would rather be unpublished than published badly. And even being published “well” is not the end of the story, as you discovered. I wish you strength and success.
Hello Jane,
I can see your point that organisations such as the BWA might benefit from the desperation of writers. But I’m surprised that you appear to believe everything is rosy elsewhere within the publishing world.
I notice the catchy catchphrase “I’d rather be unpublished than published badly” is building up a head of steam. I’d like to be at your workshop in York where you explain all about it, but I think the cost of that conference may prove to be prohibitive. So I wonder if you might be able to explain here what is meant by being ‘published badly’. And what would be the rationale behind a publisher favouring an unpublished writer over someone who has been ‘published badly’?
Also, regarding the workshop, in my opinion it would certainly make sense to have some badges made up with the catchy catchphrase on.
Regards,
Ron
ps Will you be at Winchester?
ron blanco wrote:
Where on earth did you get that idea? I don’t think trade publishing is the vile, lumbering beast that some people imply; but it is flawed in all sorts of ways, as Susie so eloquently pointed out.
You might be surprised: have you checked out the website?
I think I’ve already blogged about those things several times, Ron. You could try searching this site, and investigating the various categories and tags which will help you narrow your search down. After I’ve appeared at York I’ll blog about that again, just as I did with my Edinburgh talk.
Ron, thanks for volunteering to make the badges! And no, I’ve not been invited to speak at Winchester. Yet.
Hello Jane,
York does seem to be quite a bit more expensive than Winchester, which is a shame as I would like to have given it a try. If you are at Winchester, or if Harry lowers his prices for York, I will certainly come to your workshop.
You said:
“I don’t think trade publishing is the vile, lumbering beast that some people imply; but it is flawed in all sorts of ways, as Susie so eloquently pointed out.”
Susie’s complaint seemed to be that she was dumped by her publisher after three books, because the sales weren’t as good as the publisher wanted.
What are the other problems with mainstream publishing? Do you think the 7.5% typical royalty, that I’ve heard mentioned, is exploitative? And does the inconsistency between editors, agents and publishers, in terms of what constitutes a good book, make the whole process just as much a lottery as the BWA process?
Regards
Ron
Ron, I’ll happily go to Winchester if I’m invited and paid, so if you want to see me there you could put my name forward to the organisers of the event. I’d also be happy to speak for your writing group, so long as I’m paid a reasonable fee.
As for your other questions, I’m pretty sure I’ve answered them elsewhere on this blog. Please search for what you want; and if I have time I’ll write new blog posts to help you, to avoid taking this one even further off-topic.
Hello again,
As a publisher I do find your site quite intriguing to say the least. I will not divulge my real name as i do not wish to be associated with this sight – those who are actually in the publishing industry are fully aware of who I am.
For someone who hasn’t actually herself been successfully published as such and seems to instead have found a half hearted back-up idea that tries to serve itself as an ‘advice’ outfit, I am still left baffled about your level of expertise as to ‘how it really works!’
I am sure you have a fascinating portfolio of your success stories that have emerged following receiving advice from your good self be it independant or on this blog?
Perhaps your workshop at the York Festival of Writing by the Writers Workshop will provide a better insight to this credential you so preciously claim to hold.
I am very suprised that The Writers Workshop are having you there as I have not heard of you before this blog was highlighted to me.
We appreciate your concerns to save all those poor yearning writers from an opportunity that has, I understand, served Catherine quite well to date and will do so with the new programme.
But your tone above still carries the sour from the grape you had back in December and if you don’t mind me sharing I think it might be fairly rotten by now you know… Except for of course when Ron mentioned Winchester and you seem to have filtered straight into ‘business speak and fees’ above ;p
Appreciated!
I would like to encourage you to have a more positive outlook on the endeavours of others. Some of your comments above make painful reading for someone who wants to support and guide others.
Perhaps you could share some of these ‘published’ books of yours and thier success levels for the sake of clarity?
MB
@ Marcia B:
Hi Marcia
Were you tipsy when you typed this? It’s a great post, but I just wondered. No offence intended. I’m tipsy two
) I thought I’d left this site, but I must have hit a button so I get e-mails when there’s a new post. Anyway… folk might like to know that the publishing programme has started. I’ve met the boss man (in fact, he flew across the Irish Sea to meet me) and I’m very happy with how things are going. I sooo agree with you that would-be novelists like me need encouragement, not cynacism.
I’d be much more impressed by Marcia B’s comments if she knew how to spell and had a faint grasp on grammar.
(Imagine her as your puublicker:)
@ DOT:
Hi Dot
Red whine has a lot to anwser for (hic).
Marcia B wrote:
Hello AGAIN? Have we met before? I don’t remember you.
SITE. Sorry. Carry on.
What publishing industry is that, then, Marcia? The one that automatically knows who people are even when they are barely literate and announce that they’re refusing to say who they are? Ah! The TELEPATHIC publishing industry! Boy. I wish I could work for those people. I bet they have ray-guns and everything.
Hang on, Marcia, it’s going to take me a while to untwist your writing. You don’t like to do clarity or brevity, do you?
Right, where were we?
You’re making a bit of a mistake there: I’ve had quite a few books published. I worked as a ghost-writer for a good few years and have even appeared in a few best-sellers lists–admittedly as someone else.
I don’t think this blog is half-hearted: nor do I think it serves itself. But each to his own.
My level of expertise is based on a little more than a quarter of a century spent working in publishing as an editor, and in various marketing and production roles. I’ve worked for HarperCollins, Ebury, Chronicle and others during that time and have won numerous awards. Where did you learn your trade?
Is that a statement or a question? You need to find yourself a good editor (and before you ask, I’m not available. Sorry.)
The workshop there isn’t designed to provide attendees with information about me: it’s meant to help them get published in the best way possible. Do come, I’m sure you’ll gain from it. By the way, what’s this credential I’m meant to be holding? And how is my claim (which I don’t think I’ve made) precious? Sorry, Marcia, your meaning escapes me once again.
Ah. I didn’t realise that the Writers’ Workshop only invited people to speak if you knew of them. I’ll let Harry know your feelings and I’m sure he’ll tell me I’m no longer welcome. Meanwhile, what tense were you aiming for there? Because I’m afraid you missed it.
I’m glad Catherine is happy with her lot, and I sincerely hope all goes well for her. But I see no problem in pointing out the possible problems of schemes like the BWA.
If I had any sour grapes I’d willingly share them with you but resentfulness isn’t an emotion I indulge in. You seem to have a larger-than-average share of it, though, so should know all about how rotten things get.
You’ve not been paying attention to the subplots, Marcia.
I’m very positive. That’s why I always make sure to only submit my work to the best possible places, and why I encourage my friends and readers to do the same.
SWOOOOOOOSH!
Did you all hear that? It was the sound of The Whole Point Of This Blog flying over Marcia’s head.
It’s funny, isn’t it, that you demand that I should supply detailed information about books I’ve written and their sales figures, but you refuse to even post here under your own name.
Grow a pair, Marcia. And while you’re at it, learn to edit your posts properly, there’s a dear.
So, you were masquerading as a bona fide author at our group meetings were you Logan? How about this:
‘There is a young lady named Me
I come with no guarantee
But I’m a new scribbler and no mean ad-liber
My spelling is perfect – see!’ Gulp!
Sad news about the death of Vivien Noakes yesterday.
Biefore i get shott for it, the speling eror was diliberet!
[Link removed on request of OP]
@ Eiry Thomas:
Eh?
What group meetings?
I haven’t been to any group meetings.
Are you mis-steak-ing med for a different Logan?
@ Eiry Thomas:
“Biefore i get shott for it, the speling eror was diliberet!”
That’s “Dilbert!
)
Read more: Brit Writers’ Awards | How Publishing Really Works http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?p=3682#ixzz1EO2dKNB5
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives
@ :
I’m not A NannyMoose! It’s me: Logan!
Damn those tricky buttons.
And, getting back on-topic, here’s a piece from Brit Writers that probably won’t answer everything. However, if anyone wants specific answers feel free to contact Brit Writers … Hang on: I have to go and get it now.
Here it is… Sorry if the formatting’s poor. Not being a technohead I just cut and paster Imran’s interview.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 18 February 2011
Brit Writers’ CEO Talks Back
Logan, I’ve edited your last comment here because you just can’t copy an entire article and post it elsewhere without the specific permission of the copyright holder. It’s infringement of copyright and is against the law, and I’ll not allow it here.
I can’t get a direct link to that article, but if anyone is interested go to this page and scroll down a little bit, and you’ll see a link to download a PDF of the interview.
@ Jane Smith:
“I’ve edited your last comment here because you just can’t copy an entire article and post it elsewhere without the specific permission of the copyright holder. It’s infringement of copyright and is against the law”
Fair enough
“and I’ll not allow it here.”
Keep your hair on. You have poor netiquite and a very confrontational tone.
“I can’t get a direct link to that article, but if anyone is interested go to this page and scroll down a little bit, and you’ll see a link to download a PDF of the interview.”
Thank you, Jane. I encourage everyone to read it.
Read more: Brit Writers’ Awards | How Publishing Really Works http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?p=3682#ixzz1EQdShAnr
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives
WARNING: clicking the link below will automatically download a PDF of the interview onto your computer.
Here is the link, Jane.
Hope it helps.
wrote:
Logan, please try to remember to provide your name when commenting on my blog: you’re the only person who seems unable to do so, and it’s getting tiresome.
If you had any understanding of how damaging copyright infringement and plagiarism can be to a writer’s career (both the victim and the perpetrator) perhaps you’d understand why I’m determined not to let it happen here.
Me, confrontational? Do you mean in this thread? Oh, bless you.
And it’s “netiquette”, not “netiquite”. Please try to spell things properly: it’s a basic requirement for a writer. Thank you.
@ Jane Smith:
“Logan, please try to remember to provide your name when commenting on my blog: you’re the only person who seems unable to do so, and it’s getting tiresome.”
Just keeping you on your toes.
“If you had any understanding of how damaging copyright infringement and plagiarism can be to a writer’s career (both the victim and the perpetrator) perhaps you’d understand why I’m determined not to let it happen here.”
I do understand. I wouldn’t have posted it without permission; but it’s not something I want to make a fuss about.
“Me, confrontational?” Yes. “Do you mean in this thread?” Yes. “Oh, bless you.” Is it possible for me to say you’re a pain in the bum, but in a nice way?
“And it’s “netiquette”, not “netiquite”.”
I’m a creative writer.
Read more: Brit Writers’ Awards | How Publishing Really Works http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?p=3682#ixzz1ES2098Jh
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivativesfuss about.
Read more: Brit Writers’ Awards | How Publishing Really Works http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?p=3682#ixzz1ES0hFTV0
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives
Read more: Brit Writers’ Awards | How Publishing Really Works http://howpublishingreallyworks.com/?p=3682#ixzz1ERzqufiy
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution Non-Commercial No Derivatives
I’m not a writer but stumbled across this blog after an unpublished writer friend asked me what I thought. I’ve done my own research on Brit Writers, including reading this blog and checking their company records.
Jane, I’m surprised by the way you go about your blog. Your opening comments are speculative and you published them on the web without any first-hand knowledge or feedback from BWA. That may be OK if you do your research properly, but you speculated about Catherine Cooper’s publishing deal and her publisher without knowing what you were talking about and without having spoken to either. Catherine Cooper and Richard Burton have corrected your speculation with dignity and patience.
It’s evident from other, more well-informed posts that Brit Writers is not perfect. But that doesn’t mean the whole programme is wrong or a rip-off. It’s interesting that no-one has come forward to say they have been conned out of any money by Brit Writers, which is the basis of the criticisms being levelled against them. The test will be whether they get the publishing deals for the participating authors, and that won’t be known for some time. So if writers choose to take part and know the risks when they do so, I’d let them get on with it and give them encouragement instead of sniping from the sidelines.
In the many posts above I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Muslim Writers’ Awards, which are run by the same people as Brit Writers. They’ve been going since 2006 so they have a history. I’m sure there are plenty of scams out there to trick unpublished authors but MWA doesn’t look like one of them.
Publishing first-hand concerns on your blog is one thing, but your criticisms would carry more weight if you had checked your facts before going public. It looks to me like you had made your mind up about Brit Writers from the start, and that’s not right.
I hope this post brings some perspective to the debate.
I posted earlier in this forum before the whole BWA programme got going and I now find myself drawn back into this discussion by Steve G’s comments above. Particularly, by the fact that he says he is not a writer. I think the writers have already taken sides and there will be no coming together. Since my last comments here I have gathered my facts and I believe I have something that could help those who are really keeping an open mind about the BWA Publishing Programme. I have had first hand experience with the said programme. I attended two of their meetings and blogged about it on my website @ michaeloren.co.uk. It is certainly not a scam. And now all the participants without exception have also expressed their delight at taking this leap of faith and plunging into a venture that in the beginning (especially in the wake of too-good-to-be-true offers from Nigeria), even I have to admit would have raised those red flags. But I suspect the essence of this discussion goes deeper than that.
Before anyone makes judgements as to whose side I’m on, let me just say that I am NOT part of the programme. My work found a different route to the same destination BWA was taking me, and I decided to jump ship. But from my short experience I have nothing but respect and admiration for this outfit. And this is the only reason I will try and stay within the realms of my confidentiality agreement with them, not the fear of legal action. These people have managed to put together a very strong group of talented writers and something big will come out of this venture. Imran Akram is neither a publisher nor an agent (or even a writer for that matter), but he is a thinker and you will no doubt be hearing a lot more about this man in the publishing circles.
I know some people are still having difficulty accepting Catherine Cooper as an achievement. Jane mentioned here that she hasn’t seen her book anywhere, but I checked on Amazon yesterday and she was in the top 50 of their kindle charts, and has been in the top 10 in the last few weeks. I assume from Jane’s comment that the bricks and mortar bookstores and indeed most publishers (Jane claims she asked them and none have heard of BWA), may be telling a different story. And I think herein lies the gist of this debate. Can publication take a totally different approach to what we’ve always known and accepted and still achieve success?
I interviewed a very experienced publisher as part of my project as recently as last year and his opinion on the e-readers was a dismissive “People don’t really like reading books on those things”. But I do. And so do my friends. The said publisher has been in the industry since before I was born, and so has Jane from what I gather. I’m not trying to steer this discussion away from the subject but Jane is representing publishing as it has always been and as she would like to see it stay. BWA is trying to pioneer a new path through this industry. And if BWA, without any British publishers apparently having ever heard of them, can still set Catherine on her way to achieving what I think she will, then I think they are doing a pretty good job.
I accept, just like last time, most here will not agree with me. But I’d like to reiterate that I have no personal allegiances, this seems to be the only forum that has discussed this subject extensively and I’m merely trying to add to it. So please keep those weapons down.
For more about my experience with BWA visit me at: http://www.michaeloren.co.uk
Michael Oren
SteveG, I’m surprised you’ve researched the BWA so fully considering you’re not a writer and so have nothing invested in the BWA or in my blog, but each to his own.
I’m not going to address all your remarks in full as most of them have already been dealt with in this incredibly long thread. But I won’t let your suggestion that I didn’t check my facts go unchallenged.
I’d be grateful if you’d let me know specifically what I got wrong, and how I got it wrong. Because otherwise what you’re doing looks suspiciously like mudslinging to me, which isn’t helpful at all.
M wrote:
No, Michael: you’re misreading me. I’m doing my best to represent trade publishing as it is now, right at this minute; and I’m pointing out the flaws, as I see them, in the BWA’s schemes. I’ve seen so many people and organisations try to forge that new path through publishing: they’ve all made similar mistakes, and in each case the people who have lost out have been the writers who got involved in the schemes concerned.
The e-book debate is an entirely separate thing and I’m not going to get into it here: this thread is quite long enough as it is.
Hello Jane
Remember me?
I thought you might like some feedback, now it’s a year since I won the two Brit Writers’ Awards.
Apart from really good sales, amazing download figures from Amazon and foreign rights being sold, we’ve also made a splash in the USA.
Last month we received an email from a film producer in Hollywood and subsequently, Infinite Ideas, has optioned movie rights for The Golden Acorn with Los Angeles based Delve Films.
I still have my feet firmly on the ground and understand, from what I’ve been told by the producer, ‘a film’s not a film till you sit at the premiere’… but I’m keeping everything crossed and hope that one day I’ll see The Golden Acorn on the big screen.
The headline on the press release read… From self-published to Hollywood in 18 months.
Bye for now
Catherine
http://www.pengridion.co.uk
Now that some time has passed many of the mentoring deals have secured contracts. One of which has secured a contract with transworld and with the BWA’s help won a £20,000 book prize and has such got a mention in the guardian for his achievements.
I think facts speak louder than speculation.
Hello again
I sent you a message about a week ago, which didn’t get posted. I presumed this conversation had ended but just now I’ve had a message in my inbox to say there’s a new comment… so… I’ll write out my update again for everyone.
I promised myself I would return to this blog on the anniversary of my winning the Brit Writers’ Awards and let everyone know how I’d fared… so… this is one year on.
Infinite Ideas have been amazing and I’ve enjoyed working with them over the last twelve months. The headline on the press release earlier this year was… From self-published to Hollywood in 18 months. The contract with an LA film company was signed in May. The full press releases can be read on my website at http://www.pengridion.co.uk for anyone who’s interested… it’s too long to paste it in here.
I’ve just finished book three in the Jack Brenin series and I’ve got two more planned (to be published next year). I’ve also got the first two books in the Hawke & Co. series in print too.
I presumed those who commented in this blog about me burning my bridges and having made a boiler plate deal, were doing so out of concern, for which I was very grateful. To you I’d like to say I’ve enjoyed the last year, I’ve visited over 50 venues and spoken to hundreds of children. I’ve been in a very privileged position as an author visitor and have been able to share my love of reading and writing. Hopefully I’ve inspired some of those children to want to write too.
Lastly, in case anyone thinks all this has gone to my head, I’d like to assure you it hasn’t. I have my feet firmly on the ground and understand a film isn’t a film until you’re sat at the premiere, but I’m hoping, in the not too distant future, to be able to see my book on the big screen.
Thank you
Kind regards to everyone
Catherine
In reply to anonymous, above: my book Half Sick of Shadows was joint winner of the Terry Pratchett first novel prize. I received a contract and £10,000 advance. I entered the competition before I joined the BW publishing programme. The programme’s goal is to find publishers. Since, having won the comp’, I gained a publisher, continuing with the programme served no purpose. I have now withdrawn from the programme and BW has agreed to refund my fee minus expenses.
I should add that my work with the Publishing Programme was in the very early stages and nowhere near mentoring. I had no mentor. No mentor did his/her mentoring thing with my book. I was, and remain, mentorless. Also, I still have a good relationship with Brit Writers. I’ve read some of the other writers’ work and most of it is impressive. The big question mark (?) comes after this: “Does enabling more writers to get more books published mean a reduction in quality?”
My mistake… my previous comment did get posted. Sorry.
[...] entered the Brit Writers Awards in 2010 and 2011. Last year, I pulled my entry after reading this, by the indispensable Jane Smith. Jane listed a number of concerns in her post but what really [...]
There’s a new discussion about the BWA on my blog, this time about its new Agents Division. You’ll find it here.
Marcia B wrote,:
I think you have it spot on Marcia. I was alerted to this blog by a number of people who are of the same opinion that this Jane Smith (pseudonym identity possibly?) seems to carry a tone of envy. This is unfortunate, and her posts appear attention seeking. Why not look for the positives instead of instantly jumping to the negatives, ‘Jane’? I am sorry, but this blog appears to be one of those ones where the blogger is a non too happy individual else why would they not be positive about those trying to give others’ opportunity? Disappointing and I suspect part of an unhappy pattern on the blogger’s behalf. I am a member of the site Authonomy and I hear ‘Jane’ or the rival site she is part of has also been negative about Harper Collins and the wonderful opportunities they give to writers. A publisher that has achieved so much and a blogger who can criticise but has never given similar opportunities to anyone. Which has value?
Could I just say that this post is not from me – Claire King writer – and anyone who knows me will realise they are not my views. Jane, could you please let me have the IP address of that comment?
Thanks.
The comment from “Claire King” two comments above this, which begins with a quote from Marcie B, is NOT FROM THE WRITER CLAIRE KING. It’s from someone who is too cowardly to comment here under their own name; who clearly wants to cause trouble; and who doesn’t have the wit to know how much information we can get from an IP address, or the ability to write a coherent post.
His or her IP address is 94.8.100.172, he’s using a BSkyB Broadband internet connection, and I’m in the process of reporting him for abusing that service.
I don’t object at all to debate, even if it gets rather lively at at times: but I really object to this sort of cowardice.
I take this very seriously. If someone is trying to pass themselves off as me in my capacity as an author, that would be a criminal offence. I am also going to make enquiries with BSkyB.
This is appalling. I don’t mind debate, either, in fact people who know me try and avoid debating with me, (:-/) but this is calculated to undermine the validity of this site, of Jane and of Claire. Please let us know the outcome.
It’s a ridiculous attempt to cause trouble from someone who is too cowardly to own their own words.
I’ve reported him to his ISP, have blocked him from this site, and have identifying information about him if I need it.
Let’s move on now, and not give him any more attention.
I am quite appalled to see someone’s identity forged in such a way. Thankfully the perpetrator’s English wasn’t of a sufficiently high standard to be convincing to anyone who knows Claire.
Despicable! For once, I am actually speechless.
Claire King has asked the BWA some questions, including one about our faking friend here. I’m not quite sure what their response means but it’s… interesting. Read it here.
[...] The Brit Writers Awards In relation to the BWA Awards, it has been alleged (here, for example) that ‘Writers were being notified left, right and centre that they had made it [...]
[...] of events, so I will start with the earliest concerns that I know of. Last December, Jane Smith of How Publishing Really Works, At that time the concerns raised were mainly about the BWA’s apparent lack of [...]
[...] I can find no mention on the BWA website of this program.) I wasn't the only person with concerns. Jane Smith of How Publishing Really Works and author Claire King also weighed in, and last February, the UK's [...]